EarlyTimes Posted January 21, 2016 Report Share Posted January 21, 2016 The 17T and Tailfisher are right at the top of the list for my next boat. I'll be buying as soon as my current rig sells. But I had some questions about the differences between the two that I hope you all may be able to help with. I understand the P17 weighs on the order of 400 to 500 lbs. less than the Hewes. Seems like that would translate into easily an inch of poling draft and quite possibly two inches. Correct? I've read that in addition to the more rounded bow and layout differences, the Hewes has a more "refined" bottom/tunnel shape. What exactly does that mean on the water -- improved ride? less sliding in turns? more speed per horsepower? The implication is that it's better; I'm just wondering in what way. I really like the little side console on the older P17s, but I'm leery of buying anything pre-2000 because of the known structural issues. Were any side consoles made in later years, or were they all center consoles after a certain time? Regarding the structural stuff, I've read several times that if one of the older boats hasn't broken by now, it's not going to. I'm not sure I buy that. Seems like that would depend largely on the amount and type of use each boat has had. Thoughts on that? Overall, the lighter weight of the P17 seems like a big deal, since the whole reason I'm getting rid of my current rig is to get something skinnier. On the other hand, the better fit and finish, better build quality, and apparently somewhat better hull design of the Hewes are appealing. This is going to be 70% a fishing boat for Mosquito and Northern Indian River lagoons and 30% an everything-else boat for my small family -- freshwater fishing, river cruising, sandbar hopping, boat camping, etc. So comfort and refinement aren't the top priority, but they do figure into the equation. Yes, by the way, I'm aware both boats are relatively rough-riding and wet. I'm just not out in choppy conditions very often, and when I am, I'm okay to put on a slicker and deal with it. I have a great riding skiff now, but it doesn't get me where I want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 See my refurb of the 17T.... I went with the 17T side console as I liked the lay out better than a center...way more room and nothing to bump into. I'd say, don't be too afraid of the 1999's etc....any boat can have string problems...the good news, if have a side console, it's easy peasy to cut out the floor and fix the stringers...that's all that can wrong with the boat... DonH and I plan on running in spit and chasing birds off the oyster bars soon... I've run in the T for a few years with my buddy Peter Babb when he had is Center Console T - it runs in nothing Here was my value statement.... 1.) I bought my T for very close to $7K, DonH and I went up to check her out...most important is the compression on the engine...bring a mechanic or have it checked...mine ran 117-120 across the cylinders - perfect. 2.) check the trailer - 3.) Hull etc....most likely, if you are anything safety oriented, you'll rip out the bilge pumps and replace...I"m also cutting out the live well..don't need it....have a Engle bait cooler..works great for shrimp. 4.) We are doing a complete rewire...most of them are like old laddies dressed up...lots of things from the past that need to be removed before someone gets hurt. 5.) I wanted specific things on my T - Garmin 741XS, Powerpole, and Ulteraa for the trolling motor..this has run me about $4.5K plus wiring is about $500. So, I'll have a "new" boat for about $13K...which was my sweet spot... If you are handy and want to have fun, get an older T, have it surveyed if you have any fear of the floor or stringers..again, on the Center Console, it's not a big deal to get it fixed....BoB at Inshore Marine estimated $1500 or to do it...I would do it myself as there is no take to remove, it's just cut, replace, re-gl***..this is not rocket science.... I plan on doing a complete refurb to it over the next two years...seadeck, paint the hull, upgrade the console, etc.. I know I won't get what I'm putting in, but, it's the hobby and I'm having fun with my bud's....it's the price of admission. My buddy DonH and I are changing our fishing style for Choko..no more long runs to Lostman's and Rodgers...just gona explore the back in the winter and spring, and maybe fish Flamingo in the summer as the weather is calm and we can run to the Shark and part between. Lots of fun, they are simple in the wiring... Find one, they are all within a good budget...just take your time and enjoy the hunt for the new boat.... dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linesider 159 Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 See my refurb of the 17T....I went with the 17T side console as I liked the lay out better than a center...way more room and nothing to bump into. I'd say, don't be too afraid of the 1999's etc....any boat can have string problems...the good news, if have a side console, it's easy peasy to cut out the floor and fix the stringers...that's all that can wrong with the boat... DonH and I plan on running in spit and chasing birds off the oyster bars soon... I've run in the T for a few years with my buddy Peter Babb when he had is Center Console T - it runs in nothing Here was my value statement.... 1.) I bought my T for very close to $7K, DonH and I went up to check her out...most important is the compression on the engine...bring a mechanic or have it checked...mine ran 117-120 across the cylinders - perfect. 2.) check the trailer - 3.) Hull etc....most likely, if you are anything safety oriented, you'll rip out the bilge pumps and replace...I"m also cutting out the live well..don't need it....have a Engle bait cooler..works great for shrimp. 4.) We are doing a complete rewire...most of them are like old laddies dressed up...lots of things from the past that need to be removed before someone gets hurt. 5.) I wanted specific things on my T - Garmin 741XS, Powerpole, and Ulteraa for the trolling motor..this has run me about $4.5K plus wiring is about $500. So, I'll have a "new" boat for about $13K...which was my sweet spot... If you are handy and want to have fun, get an older T, have it surveyed if you have any fear of the floor or stringers..again, on the Center Console, it's not a big deal to get it fixed....BoB at Inshore Marine estimated $1500 or to do it...I would do it myself as there is no take to remove, it's just cut, replace, re-gl***..this is not rocket science.... I plan on doing a complete refurb to it over the next two years...seadeck, paint the hull, upgrade the console, etc.. I know I won't get what I'm putting in, but, it's the hobby and I'm having fun with my bud's....it's the price of admission. My buddy DonH and I are changing our fishing style for Choko..no more long runs to Lostman's and Rodgers...just gona explore the back in the winter and spring, and maybe fish Flamingo in the summer as the weather is calm and we can run to the Shark and part between. Lots of fun, they are simple in the wiring... Find one, they are all within a good budget...just take your time and enjoy the hunt for the new boat.... dc This response is what working on boats and enjoying the fruits of your labor is all about. Great write-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaddict Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The 17T is lighter. The Tailfisher is more refined with user comforts, more hatches and a better finish. The 17T is the cheaper, bare bones sibling. Neither are poling skiffs by any means. You can pole them, but going into any wind is like pushing a barge. I have a center console 2000 17T and actually prefer it over the side. Yes the side console has more room, but I prefer to have the weight centered in that hull design as much as possible. It does squat in the rear. I mounted both tolling motor batteries in the center console. I also have a large portable release well that I put in front of the center console, the existing live well is small for holding fish. I had a custom poling platform built that I had installed about 12" forward to help with the squat issues while on the old style platform. The 17T will run shallower than it will float. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donh Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 I wouldn't eliminate an HPX tunnel from consideration if you can find one at a bargain price. Just my .02 after owning one for a few years. dh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conocean Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The 17T is lighter. The Tailfisher is more refined with user comforts, more hatches and a better finish. The 17T is the cheaper, bare bones sibling. Neither are poling skiffs by any means. You can pole them, but going into any wind is like pushing a barge. I have a center console 2000 17T and actually prefer it over the side. Yes the side console has more room, but I prefer to have the weight centered in that hull design as much as possible. It does squat in the rear. I mounted both tolling motor batteries in the center console. I also have a large portable release well that I put in front of the center console, the existing live well is small for holding fish. I had a custom poling platform built that I had installed about 12" forward to help with the squat issues while on the old style platform. The 17T will run shallower than it will float. Now that's solid info! :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telltail Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 Not to hijack the thread--just curious why you sold your hpx t and going to the pathfinder? Tight lines... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donh Posted January 22, 2016 Report Share Posted January 22, 2016 The Pathfinder belongs to Dino ( Capt. Dewalt). Sold the HPX T for several reasons, one of which I want to do more fly fishing with a guide. I do miss the skiff and if I were back in the market it would definately be on the short list. It was a very capable boat when used within its design,running skinny,poling shallow. Just tough and unreasonable to expect someone else to pole you most of the day, unless you're paying them. dh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted January 23, 2016 Report Share Posted January 23, 2016 The Pathfinder belongs to Dino ( Capt. Dewalt). Sold the HPX T for several reasons, one of which I want to do more fly fishing with a guide. I do miss the skiff and if I were back in the market it would definately be on the short list. It was a very capable boat when used within its design,running skinny,poling shallow.Just tough and unreasonable to expect someone else to pole you most of the day, unless you're paying them. dh What Don H is saying is his fat fishing partner doesn't poll that well Now that we have the Ulteraa on the "17T" mounted port side...you have the entire starboard deck wide open...no center console to or rods in the air... I plan on sitting on the tower with the remote and we'll troll the mangroves and you can cast your buggy whip into the mangroves.... Now, that's my kind of poling Back to the side vs Center discussion... It's really a matter of choice and preference... The 17T is narrow and with rod holders, I found I was alway bumping into them when I fished with Peter Babb and on the HPX t, same situation.... I plan on managing the rods differently on the 17T..they will be either under the gunnels or on the stern tower...this will open up things for DonH to fly fish a bit more and more room around the deck... I do plan on using the 17T for some photography work and I like the fact that i can store one of my large pelican cases on the floor..the HPX or 17T Center Console, does not allow that... We have worked on balancing the weight not he 17T side. I have the battery, charger, and power pole engine on the port side...with console on starboard. The two trolling motor batteries are firmly placed in the front next to the bulkhead...the TM will be on the port side...again, balancing... When we ran the boat for the sea-trial, DonH and I were on the console and back seat and the owner, a large guy 220 + lbs was sitting not he bulkhead...we had 6 gallons of gas and the weight balance was good... I look forward to getting her in the water soon... I think with the two TM batteries (120 lbs), gas (18 gallon) 150 lbs,a nd the TM (60 lbs)...it should balance the stern weight - me, 280 lbs plus DonH (skinny) 180lbs.... Let's see how she runs..but, looking forward to runn'n da skinny dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyTimes Posted January 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2016 Wow, very valuable info. Thank you all. I'm already looking -- just need to get this current rig sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobVan Posted January 27, 2016 Report Share Posted January 27, 2016 Just to add a few more comments. I had a 2000 17T with the center console. I did pole the boat a lot in very shallow water so I kept the boat as light as possible - one small Odyssey battery under the console for starting and running the GPS, no trolling motor, and only put life jackets in the rear storage to help balance the boat. As was said previously the boat would run and float very shallow - probably around 6". I had a jack plate and large anti-cavitation plate so could run the motor high enough where just the skeg was below the hull. This did make steering a challenge so not recommended if you have to navigate a winding creek. I did stick it a few times in shallow water but if both of us got out of the boat it would float and we could push it to deeper water. The boat poled OK but if there was any wind it was almost impossible to get it to track straight. I agree about the rod holders on the center console - I added a set on each side but then took them off as it was just too narrow to walk by the console easily. I used the under gunnel storage most of the time as well as a couple of rod holders mounted in the aft deck and clamp on holders on the platform legs. As you are aware the ride can be very rough and wet due to the flat bottom and slab sides (no spray rails) so need to pick your days and routes. One other thing that was a PITA - the deck drains. I had to always leave plugs in the drains. The deck was just at the water level and with my jack plate motor on the starboard side, the bottom of the drain on that side would be just below water level. I could pull them out when running to drain any water but they had to be in when the boat was not moving. I always carried a big blue sponge to bail with if I could not run the boat (washing off at the dock or rain when leaving the boat in the water). Considered letting the water drain into the bilge (as it does on my current boat) but never did that - that may be an option. Good luck in your search! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EarlyTimes Posted February 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Well, got the previous rig sold and now actively looking. One more question: Is a 2-stroke 50 enough power for a 17T? I'm 225 lbs and fish mainly with one other adult, occasionally with one other adult and a 60 lb kid, and go for occasional joyrides with one other adult and about 100 lbs. worth of kids. (Plus gear and such obviously.) I had thought the 50 and 60 were basically the same engine, but looks as if the 50 is actually about 40 lbs lighter. Wondering how much that might help offset the smaller hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Well, got the previous rig sold and now actively looking.One more question: Is a 2-stroke 50 enough power for a 17T? I'm 225 lbs and fish mainly with one other adult, occasionally with one other adult and a 60 lb kid, and go for occasional joyrides with one other adult and about 100 lbs. worth of kids. (Plus gear and such obviously.) I had thought the 50 and 60 were basically the same engine, but looks as if the 50 is actually about 40 lbs lighter. Wondering how much that might help offset the smaller hp. Here's the latest on my 17T Side Console 1st, DonH and I love the Side console... with some backrest seats, we found that it really works great...we fished it last week and the open cockpit is really a nice addition. Right now, the boat has a 50 hp, with 4 blade 13p SCD blade.. We run it with two 27's batteries (53 @ =100 lbs) plus trolling motor 60 lbs plus a Yetti 50 lbs = 225 lb plus minus on the bow 18 gallons of fuel... Stern - no bait well, I cut it out... In the storage hold - powerpole motor and battery = 75 lbs. Add gear = 50 lbs.... two fisherman = one 290 plus DonH 200 Hole shot - tabs down up in a few boat lenghts WOT -27 mph @ 4500 rpms Draft - I think i'm seeing about 7-8 inches Running - 8-12 inches Crusing @ 4200 rpms = 24-25 mph So far, love the boat.... very stable.. I would like the 60 hp.....but, the 50 is adequate. To be honest, much about 28-29 mph and it gets squirely....you can't run it at any high speeds in turns... definately not a 3 adult fishing boat..but, two adults and one child ..ok. dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue dolphin Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 Original owner of a 1998 Kevlar 17t which I still own, had a 2001 hpxt, have friends with 1999 and 2001 17ts. The hpxt did not have a jack plate or a 4 blade but did have a 70 2 stroke. All the 17ts have 60 2 strokes- one merc and two yams. The 2001 has never had stringer problems, the other two both have and both have floor delam and the merc boat had deck come loose from the hull. None of these failures were difficult to fix. So my boat with the 4" set back jack plate and fibergl*** plate on the motor I prefer to the hpx. The 17t jumps on plane faster in shallower water but that may be a function of the rigging. My 17t can power slide through tight turns, I could never get the hpx to do that nor the Shallowsport but the Curlew does which is a nice trick for tight spaces. I think the 17t is a family heirloom which will never be sold. The 17t has a round tunnel that angles upward at the transom, the tail fisher has a tunnel similar if not identical to the hpx and is rectangular in shape. Both supply plenty of water to the prop.when I first got my 17t I had lots of spray coming out of the tunnel hitting the motor and tower, once the jack plate and shallow blaster plate went on that ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReelEstate Posted February 23, 2016 Report Share Posted February 23, 2016 If you get a chance, I'd like to see photos of your rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 If you get a chance, I'd like to see photos of your rig. See the thread on refurb here in the forum. dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobVan Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 I had a 50 4-stroke on my 17T and agree that it was adequate. Hole shot was fine with two adults. I would also agree that the 17T got up quicker than my current HPXT. Some of that has to do with the prop as my HPX is set up for running shallow - can easily run with the jack plate at 5 (or almost max) where as the 17T would start losing pressure around 4. A 60 would have been nice but had no regrets with the 50. It's all about the hole shot as top end is meaningless on this boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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