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S&W M&P 22 LR pistol?


Shallowminded6

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3 hours ago, Drummer said:

Dino, I hate to hear this.  You were REALLY getting dialed in with that CZ!  Ammo prices will return to normal, as they always do. This election has folks panicked. 

The pandemic and the election really screwed things up. I really hope proces go down. I bought 1k rounds of 5.56 for $675 a month ago. Was almost half that 8 months ago. Rediculous money, but its the things you do to feel prepared and safe. 

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17 minutes ago, THE OUTLAW said:

This was my Dads gun , as a child .

He used to shoot critters , on the farm , as a youngin .

Colt Woodsman .

Smooth as silk .

Deadly accurate .

Had to get this out of the safe .

This a cool thread .

🇺🇸🏴‍☠️
 

 

B2B0D15A-27C7-43D5-A13D-06FC21738092.jpeg

What an awesome gun, was just reading about these due to this discussion. What a piece of history you have, just cool. 

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5 hours ago, Drummer said:

Remington rimfire ammo, if it even shoots, is the most unreliable I have every seen.  Seriously, I have seen 3 out of 10, with a good primer strike, not fire. Really low quality stuff.  Federal can be bad at times as well, and their low cost stuff is dirty. CCI is good for plinking. Wolf and SK, which are made by Lapua, are great subsonic loads if you want accuracy on a budget. If you are loaded with dough, get Lapua or Eley.  Some guys love RWS, I have never had a gun that loved it.  JMO  

I will try some of these brands out.  A little tip for those shooting rimfire, if a round doesn't fire on first impact, turn it and try again.  For me 9 of 10 times it fires.  They use a small amount of primer powder and spin the casing so powder collects at the rim, sometimes there are gaps which won't ignite when struck by hammer.  

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Priming seems to be Remington's rimfire issue, but who wants to pull a dud round out and rotate it? Not me. I prefer to spend a little more for ammo that goes BANG when I pull the trigger. But I have tried the rotate method as well, more out of curiosity than anything else, and it usually worked. I have had centerfire rounds with dud primers not shoot, but rarely, thankfully. Another reason it's a great idea to practice clearing your pistol of a DNF round. Muscle memory and familiarity are paramount.  

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2 hours ago, Drummer said:

Priming seems to be Remington's rimfire issue, but who wants to pull a dud round out and rotate it? Not me. I prefer to spend a little more for ammo that goes BANG when I pull the trigger. But I have tried the rotate method as well, more out of curiosity than anything else, and it usually worked. I have had centerfire rounds with dud primers not shoot, but rarely, thankfully. Another reason it's a great idea to practice clearing your pistol of a DNF round. Muscle memory and familiarity are paramount.  

I definitely prefer ammo that works, but as it has become so expensive nowadays, I try at least to make them work.

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Well my opinion differs.... as a Firearms instructor and rangemaster teaching new shooters actively for 15+ years there should be no issue starting her in a 9mm.... Ive taught hundreds of women to shoot who've never held a gun in their life.  A big part of this is if SHE wants to learn to shoot?  If yes your on a better path than if YOU want her to do it.  I wouldnt even bother if she has no desire as chances are she wont dedicate putting forth her best effort.

  Time behind a weapon is what she needs as with anything and no different from us guys who all at 1st were leary of the sound and recoil the 1st time we shot something.  Its a natural human response to flinch, slam eyes shut etc at loud sounds so as time goes on she will get accustomed to the recoil and report... some require more time than others.  Tons of professional women shooters out there with vids on women learning to shoot so those can also provide help as its coming from a womens perspective and she can see a women whos successful which should lend her confidence she can do the same.

  Dont get me wrong its not counter productive if she starts with a 22 and is smart before risking a gun purchase specifically for her.  The Smith 22 is the best out there in the "duty" style guns so if you are wanting to get a Smith for her it makes sense to go with the M&P 22 as it is an exact match or very similar to defensive carry pistols in the M&P line.   I also taught many crossover classes (revolver to semi auto) to certify individuals on semis so Im well versed on the challenges Females face shooting them such as inability to continue to pull the trigger after so many rounds, difficulty in bringing the slide to the rear & difficulty loading magazines.  Given that Id highly recommend the M&P sheild EZ over any other for a female carry weapon as it eliminates all those issues. 

    

  

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38 minutes ago, FINCHASER said:

Well my opinion differs.... as a Firearms instructor and rangemaster teaching new shooters actively for 15+ years there should be no issue starting her in a 9mm.... Ive taught hundreds of women to shoot who've never held a gun in their life.  A big part of this is if SHE wants to learn to shoot?  If yes your on a better path than if YOU want her to do it.  I wouldnt even bother if she has no desire as chances are she wont dedicate putting forth her best effort.

  Time behind a weapon is what she needs as with anything and no different from us guys who all at 1st were leary of the sound and recoil the 1st time we shot something.  Its a natural human response to flinch, slam eyes shut etc at loud sounds so as time goes on she will get accustomed to the recoil and report... some require more time than others.  Tons of professional women shooters out there with vids on women learning to shoot so those can also provide help as its coming from a womens perspective and she can see a women whos successful which should lend her confidence she can do the same.

  Dont get me wrong its not counter productive if she starts with a 22 and is smart before risking a gun purchase specifically for her.  The Smith 22 is the best out there in the "duty" style guns so if you are wanting to get a Smith for her it makes sense to go with the M&P 22 as it is an exact match or very similar to defensive carry pistols in the M&P line.   I also taught many crossover classes (revolver to semi auto) to certify individuals on semis so Im well versed on the challenges Females face shooting them such as inability to continue to pull the trigger after so many rounds, difficulty in bringing the slide to the rear & difficulty loading magazines.  Given that Id highly recommend the M&P sheild EZ over any other for a female carry weapon as it eliminates all those issues. 

    

  

Starting with a .22 wasnt as much about that being a forever gun. Just wanted something she could shoot, cheap ammo(relatively), and she could get used to shooting with minimal kick and noise which I am hoping will equate to more use. I like the idea of getting a female instructor to help. With where we live, we have firearms out for protection/varmints and even if she decided not to proceed to CCW, I just wanted her to have a little more base knowledge with what we have and how to use it.

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When and if she wants to move into the centerfire world, I agree the Smith Shield EZ is a great pistol. I have put numerous .380 EZs in women's hands and they generally love them, like almost every time. It's easy to cycle, easy to shoot, has a grip safety (I avoid the thumb safety model), points well, and is concealable.  And the new .380 ammo has plenty of pop, albeit expensive. The same pistol is now available in 9mm, but is has more recoil and a louder report. You have some fun times ahead! 

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5 minutes ago, Drummer said:

When and if she wants to move into the centerfire world, I agree the Smith Shield EZ is a great pistol. I have put numerous .380 EZs in women's hands and they generally love them, like almost every time. It's easy to cycle, easy to shoot, has a grip safety (I avoid the thumb safety model), points well, and is concealable.  And the new .380 ammo has plenty of pop, albeit expensive. The same pistol is now available in 9mm, but is has more recoil and a louder report. You have some fun times ahead! 

Why do you avoid the thumb safety model?

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I see the cost associated. A really nice .22 pistol is expensive, and as mentioned above the cost for good ammo is crazy.  I use cci 0032,1070FPS, wolf is a good choice too.  A Pardini .22 competition gun has a adaptable .32 cal barrel and works for the shooting the same pistol for both centerfire and rimfire.

S&W 41 Is my goto bullseye pistol and for center fire, Have a custom CZ all done up... in 9mm

Ruger .22 Mk series is cheaper to buy, and customize. I got a cracker jack one with trigger and springs done, it only takes a breath to fire.. 

 

I bought my wife a pocket pistol, wish I hadn't. Kicks hard and causes bleeding. she watches me shoot it and now won't even try it.. Seecamp .32

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JMO, I only use CCI in my .22 autos. If teaching with a .22 to move up to a larger cal I would not go with a target gun to learn on. Stick with the same platform she will move up to. DO NOT choose her gun. Let her do it by trying different ones at the range or shop to see how she likes the feel of it. I would also have her check out the fit and feel of the gun she will be moving up to. You may also suggest a wheel gun if she has concerns about jams, stove piping, limp wristing and such. The Smith would be a great choice if auto wanted. Before trying to get her to punch paper in groups, just let her get use to the feel of the gun, the rest will come. Have done this with my late wife and granddaughters. They are good and just got their ccw’s.
 

The ones I edc most.

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On 10/20/2020 at 9:38 PM, Shallowminded6 said:

I havent seen much on these types of topics, if it is not allowed or even discouraged I will delete. But I am interested in some opinions on .22 LR pistols, I am thinking of buying a S&W .22LR which is an almost clone of my shield 9mm. Anyone have any suggestions of brand, make, model, etc.? Want a .22 pistol to help teach my wife, so if there is a better one I am willing to change. Noticed in comments of other threads that there are some really experienced shooters here. Interested in thoughts. 

What FinChaser said. This is real world experience for me. My daughter and daughter in law wanted the shoot. I took them with my M&P compact 9mm. My Daughter in law has small hands and it was not comfortable for her. I rented a 380 EZ and she fell in love. My daughter has a larger hands and loves my M&P compact. I switched it to the smallest grip for her and had fight to get it back.  Very soon after we moved my daughter in law to a 9mm EZ. Her biggest challenge was racking the slide. Second was grip. The S&W EZ took care of both those challenges. 

I shoot Remington Thunderbolt 22 lr all the time and have had very little problems. My Dad bought thousands of rounds at some point and I inherited ammo boxes full. I bought a CMMG conversion for my Ruger 5.56. The girls love the thing. A couple weeks ago we went and I never got to put the 5.56 carrier group back in. My thumbs were sore from loading 22lr clips. 

Keep It Safe, Keep it Fun and Keep it Real

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6 hours ago, Shallowminded6 said:

Why do you avoid the thumb safety model?

If you research people who "freeze" in panic situations with firearms in hand, a high percentage of their guns won't fire because the safety is on. They simply don't train enough to develop the necessary muscle memory to automatically remove the safety and fire. Precious seconds are wasted, and lives have been lost as a result. This is one reason I like Glock. The primary safety is in the trigger blade. On the Shield EZ, the grip safety, similar in concept to the 1911 platform, will not allow the pistol to fire unless the firearm is gripped. In reality, that's all you need. Just as safe as a revolver, but easier to shoot and reload, and a higher round count. Again, JMO. 

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Well Glock is not the only one to not have manual safety... Smith does as well and even if you have a Smith with one it is easy to remove the safety and get a frame plug (free from factory) to put in the safety levers place.  Most people dont even realize that all M&P frames have the cut out.... those without the safety have the plug in place from the factory.  

There is no need for manual safety on a striker fired gun.... it just adds another step to the process the individual is the safety, dont touch the trigger unless you are going to fire it.  The only reason the trigger safeties exist is for liability protection of the manufacturer so you cant say "it just went off"

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15 minutes ago, Drummer said:

If you research people who "freeze" in panic situations with firearms in hand, a high percentage of their guns won't fire because the safety is on. They simply don't train enough to develop the necessary muscle memory to automatically remove the safety and fire. Precious seconds are wasted, and lives have been lost as a result. This is one reason I like Glock. The primary safety is in the trigger blade. On the Shield EZ, the grip safety, similar in concept to the 1911 platform, will not allow the pistol to fire unless the firearm is gripped. In reality, that's all you need. Just as safe as a revolver, but easier to shoot and reload, and a higher round count. Again, JMO. 

I tend to agree. My M&P's have no safety like most striker fire pistols. We practice and practice and practice muzzle awareness and trigger finger positio Honestly, I believe if someone is going to conceal carry or own a gun for that matter, they need to take that responsibility seriously, like life and death seriously. That means Train, practice, Train, Practice, and train and practice some more. When you become that familiar with your firearm and the safety practice's that should go with it, there is no need for a thumb safety. At that level of confidence there will likely not be any "panic" either. I have worked with the girls ( my wife, daughter and daughter in law ) to raise their confidence, but also to take a defensive posture. Example....Home alone, trouble comes knocking. grab your phone and your pistol, call for help and find a predetermined secure position, let the trouble come to you and when it does, do what needs be done. We have practiced this, well not the do what needs be done part Thank God! 

I, when I was younger and stronger, Would never keep a round in the pipe of my striker fire pistol for safety. As I get older and my son and I train and practice more, that has changed. My son told me that he did not want the last thing I ever heard, to be my slide rack. I think he read that somewhere. Made perfect sense. 

Safety or not please, train, practice, train practice, the life you save might be mine. 

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7 hours ago, Drummer said:

When and if she wants to move into the centerfire world, I agree the Smith Shield EZ is a great pisto

I bought my wife one for the reasons fin chaser mentioned above...ease of racking and fit in the hand....I don't like as it's too small.

She and my daughter took her CCW at a private class with a great instructor and he followed up with 1 hour of private lessons....

I highly recommend having someone other than the hubby try and teach your wife or girlfriend how to shoot....IMHO once they feel comfortable with the weapon, you can begin to spend time together....

Time in the hand is important....

I got into competitive shooting recently (@DRUMMER) has been a great influence and helped me learn...

My daughter had some experience when I began and she joined me into learning about competitive shooting and we've shot 3 steel challenge matches together....it was great fun and the members at the club are a great group of people who are safety oriented and love to teach newbies....

@DRUMMER  I did spoil her forever and she now owns my  CZ Shadow2 with Trijicon RMR....she is super spoiled with it ....and she has a custom belt and holster....nothing like the best for your daughter ? eh ?

So, enough of my rant...

Let's get ammo down to $300 so I go back to shooting....

 

DC

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2 hours ago, Drummer said:

If you research people who "freeze" in panic situations with firearms in hand, a high percentage of their guns won't fire because the safety is on. They simply don't train enough to develop the necessary muscle memory to automatically remove the safety and fire. Precious seconds are wasted, and lives have been lost as a result. This is one reason I like Glock. The primary safety is in the trigger blade. On the Shield EZ, the grip safety, similar in concept to the 1911 platform, will not allow the pistol to fire unless the firearm is gripped. In reality, that's all you need. Just as safe as a revolver, but easier to shoot and reload, and a higher round count. Again, JMO. 

I figured you were referencing for concealed but didnt want to “jump the gun”. Makes sense to me. I agree, cant wait for ammo to go down to reasonable rates again. 

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11 hours ago, Wanaflatsfish said:

I bought my wife one for the reasons fin chaser mentioned above...ease of racking and fit in the hand....I don't like as it's too small.

She and my daughter took her CCW at a private class with a great instructor and he followed up with 1 hour of private lessons....

I highly recommend having someone other than the hubby try and teach your wife or girlfriend how to shoot....IMHO once they feel comfortable with the weapon, you can begin to spend time together....

Time in the hand is important....

I got into competitive shooting recently (@DRUMMER) has been a great influence and helped me learn...

My daughter had some experience when I began and she joined me into learning about competitive shooting and we've shot 3 steel challenge matches together....it was great fun and the members at the club are a great group of people who are safety oriented and love to teach newbies....

@DRUMMER  I did spoil her forever and she now owns my  CZ Shadow2 with Trijicon RMR....she is super spoiled with it ....and she has a custom belt and holster....nothing like the best for your daughter ? eh ?

So, enough of my rant...

Let's get ammo down to $300 so I go back to shooting....

 

DC

This is a great example of the love a father has for his daughter!  Giving her that CZ, which I know you really love, is outstanding, Dino! Maybe back to the Glock for you?? haha

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11 hours ago, jh141 said:

I tend to agree. My M&P's have no safety like most striker fire pistols. We practice and practice and practice muzzle awareness and trigger finger positio Honestly, I believe if someone is going to conceal carry or own a gun for that matter, they need to take that responsibility seriously, like life and death seriously. That means Train, practice, Train, Practice, and train and practice some more. When you become that familiar with your firearm and the safety practice's that should go with it, there is no need for a thumb safety. At that level of confidence there will likely not be any "panic" either. I have worked with the girls ( my wife, daughter and daughter in law ) to raise their confidence, but also to take a defensive posture. Example....Home alone, trouble comes knocking. grab your phone and your pistol, call for help and find a predetermined secure position, let the trouble come to you and when it does, do what needs be done. We have practiced this, well not the do what needs be done part Thank God! 

I, when I was younger and stronger, Would never keep a round in the pipe of my striker fire pistol for safety. As I get older and my son and I train and practice more, that has changed. My son told me that he did not want the last thing I ever heard, to be my slide rack. I think he read that somewhere. Made perfect sense. 

Safety or not please, train, practice, train practice, the life you save might be mine. 

IMHO, defensive striker fired pistols, or any other for that matter, should be kept IN BATTERY. That means one in the chamber, ready to fire. Glad you made a wise choice. Keep practicing. Also, thanks for pointing out taking a secure position in the home.  

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21 hours ago, Drummer said:

They simply don't train enough to develop the necessary muscle memory to automatically remove the safety and fire.

In Steel Challenge and USPSA they require you to have your safety on, with a round in the chamber when you draw from the holster.

I shoot a CZ, TSO Orange with a SRO Trijicon red dot (yes, I'm very spoiled with a 2-3 lb trigger out of the box :) )

Muscle Memory is something I have learned when  you dry fire hundreds and hundreds of times.  Your thumb automatically pushes downward on the safety as your left hand (I'm right handed) drops from over head in the hands up position and i grip the weapon with my left hand.    I've learned to drop my left hand, tap the top of my stomach and push outward as my right hand is drawing the out of the holster.  This takes place as the left hand begins to wrap around the pistol and the left thumb pushes against the thumb rest, my right thumb is pushing down on the safety as the weapon is pointing down range.

When I'm shooting at the range, I try and always follow the same routine of holding the weapon down range at my chest and then push out with my thumb pushing down on the safety.  I conduct drills with 5 rounds, stop and then reload.  Begin again, and push out.

 

Here is a little something I made as I was training...I use a go pro and it came out pretty good....I was wanting to check my barrel rise...it was at 10 yards, 12 of 16 if I remember correctly in a 3" target ...be sure you turn up the volume :)

 

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