GaFullCircle Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Long time lurker first time poster. About a year ago I found a one owner low hour (last registered 2010) 2001 Hewes Redfisher 18 with a 130 yamaha in North Georgia. After a quick negotiation I was towing her back to Savannah, GA. I spent the next few weeks going through the motor, compounding the hull, and upgrading a few items. This thing looked like it came off the showroom floor, no holes drilled in it, no electronics, no accessories, a true barn find time capsule. A couple weeks ago while running I heard some rattling in a cylinder (only for a few seconds) with no loss of performance and even ran the rest of the weekend. When home I stuck a scope in cylinder number 1 and lo and behold a chipped piston. The cylinder still has compression; however, I am not going to run further until I resolve the issue. Should I rebuild this mint 130, I have been in contact with a motor builder in Florida or replace? I am currently trying to find a 150 Vmax 2 stroke, but they are extremely difficult to locate in good shape with a good price. Leaning to rebuilding the 130, its a great little power plant and buzzes me and another angler around at 47 mph. Any help would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuddyBottomBluz Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Stand by. The 130 HP worshippers will be arriving soon! However when they want to hold a prayer circle around the motor it gets a little wierd? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lap it Up Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 Sounds like you might have caught it early enough. Did you see any noticeable deep scoring on the cylinder walls? If you have zero scoring you can try a backyard rebuild thru the front half. You would have to do some disassy (carbs and intake off) but it can be done. Muratic acid will clean out any and all aluminum build up so you can truly see if there is any scoring from the "chip". Then lightly ball hone the cylinder to gain a good cross hatch and slide a new piston / rings in there. Definitely change the rod "caged needles" bearing as well. I have done this a couple times with good success. You just have to make sure your hole is concentric and not scored. Before you run it again you need to figure out how that one cylinder got damaged. Lack of oil or heat are the two main contributors to 2 stroke failures. Go thru the entire cooling system, oiling system and alarms. Also check all re-circ lines on the block and carbs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaFullCircle Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 49 minutes ago, Lap it Up said: Sounds like you might have caught it early enough. Did you see any noticeable deep scoring on the cylinder walls? If you have zero scoring you can try a backyard rebuild thru the front half. You would have to do some disassy (carbs and intake off) but it can be done. Muratic acid will clean out any and all aluminum build up so you can truly see if there is any scoring from the "chip". Then lightly ball hone the cylinder to gain a good cross hatch and slide a new piston / rings in there. Definitely change the rod "caged needles" bearing as well. I have done this a couple times with good success. You just have to make sure your hole is concentric and not scored. Before you run it again you need to figure out how that one cylinder got damaged. Lack of oil or heat are the two main contributors to 2 stroke failures. Go thru the entire cooling system, oiling system and alarms. Also check all re-circ lines on the block and carbs. I have considered this, the "chip" is located inline with the exhaust port, I'm guessing a ring caught the exhaust port lip and chipped about half of a thumbnail of piston off and bounced around inside the cylinder until it exited through the exhaust. The cylinder looks fine and its still holding 120 psi. Why the ring caught the exhaust port, idk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabear Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 That’s the hottest side of the top of the piston the fuel on the intake side makes the intake side not as hot as the exhaust side . Read the top of the pistons if they are dry with minimal wash from fuel that cylinder may have run lean and got hot the areas with smaller amounts of metal heat up faster . Areas with thin sharp 90 degree corners and the thinner area next to the top of the piston get hotter faster . The thin piston material between the piston top and the ring grove on the exhaust side is the hottest areas on the top of the piston . A carb that has some restricted ports or jets could lean out one cylinder more than the others . What did the spark plug that came out of the hole with the damaged piston look like . Was look down inside the plug see if it’s lean or if it had a few black pepper looking dots on the insulator see if the tip has a melted round edge tip with a glazed or glossy appearance . Reds the plugs and cylinder tops they will tell a story about what it going on inside that cylinder . If the plug has signs of overheating . Detonation from lean air/ fuel ratio appears on the exhaust port side of the piston . The piston crown will exhibit damage in the exhaust port area. If you keep running it damage will first occur on the exhaust side of the piston and the side of the piston will become scuffed followed by cylinder wall metal transfer . I would say that the root cause of your damaged piston crown is from running lean . Hopes this helps . Joe R 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaFullCircle Posted July 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, dabear said: That’s the hottest side of the top of the piston the fuel on the intake side makes the intake side not as hot as the exhaust side . Read the top of the pistons if they are dry with minimal wash from fuel that cylinder may have run lean and got hot the areas with smaller amounts of metal heat up faster . Areas with thin sharp 90 degree corners and the thinner area next to the top of the piston get hotter faster . The thin piston material between the piston top and the ring grove on the exhaust side is the hottest areas on the top of the piston . A carb that has some restricted ports or jets could lean out one cylinder more than the others . What did the spark plug that came out of the hole with the damaged piston look like . Was look down inside the plug see if it’s lean or if it had a few black pepper looking dots on the insulator see if the tip has a melted round edge tip with a glazed or glossy appearance . Reds the plugs and cylinder tops they will tell a story about what it going on inside that cylinder . If the plug has signs of overheating . Detonation from lean air/ fuel ratio appears on the exhaust port side of the piston . The piston crown will exhibit damage in the exhaust port area. If you keep running it damage will first occur on the exhaust side of the piston and the side of the piston will become scuffed followed by cylinder wall metal transfer . I would say that the root cause of your damaged piston crown is from running lean . Hopes this helps . Joe R Thanks Joe! That was my first thought, but the spark plug looked optimal maybe even a tad bit rich when I pulled it at the end of the day, no typical indication of a lean out. Also the top of the piston looked the same as all others. Before a scoped the cylinder I ran with no issues a few hours with a solid hour or so at 5600-5700 rpms. Just strange to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabear Posted July 13, 2021 Report Share Posted July 13, 2021 To get a good read on a spark plug and or a piston top you need to install new plugs . Than do a Wide Open Throttle run turn the key off at W.O.T. Drop the trolling motor down tie up at the dock pull the boat out with out starting the motor and than pull the plugs read the tops of the piston and see if they have a good wash out pattern on the piston tops or if is lean and hot . Same thing on the plug . Old fuel loses its octane and can cause the same detonation and damage as a restriction in the fuel / air ratio . It’s a double edge sword when you have to run a engine to diagnose the root cause that damaged your motor . You don’t want to run it and cause more damage but if your going to replace that piston and rings you want to make sure that the new parts are not damaged because you didn’t pinpoint what originally cause that cylinder to get hot . It’s either a water cooling passage restriction corrosion build up inside the block or / heads or a fuel problem . I would check both areas very close before replacing ant parts . 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted July 14, 2021 Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 I am often amazed by the wealth of info on this forum, but this one takes the cake! Good read! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaFullCircle Posted July 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2021 13 hours ago, dabear said: To get a good read on a spark plug and or a piston top you need to install new plugs . Than do a Wide Open Throttle run turn the key off at W.O.T. Drop the trolling motor down tie up at the dock pull the boat out with out starting the motor and than pull the plugs read the tops of the piston and see if they have a good wash out pattern on the piston tops or if is lean and hot . Same thing on the plug . Old fuel loses its octane and can cause the same detonation and damage as a restriction in the fuel / air ratio . It’s a double edge sword when you have to run a engine to diagnose the root cause that damaged your motor . You don’t want to run it and cause more damage but if your going to replace that piston and rings you want to make sure that the new parts are not damaged because you didn’t pinpoint what originally cause that cylinder to get hot . It’s either a water cooling passage restriction corrosion build up inside the block or / heads or a fuel problem . I would check both areas very close before replacing ant parts . Very true, thanks again for your knowledge. I am leaning to sending it off to be completely rebuilt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 19 hours ago, GaFullCircle said: Very true, thanks again for your knowledge. I am leaning to sending it off to be completely rebuilt. At the price and availability of a new engine....probably a very good decision...if mine (115 two), I'd go for the rebuild as well....new 115's, I hear if you can find them, are over $15K.... dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaFullCircle Posted July 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 5 hours ago, Wanaflatsfish said: At the price and availability of a new engine....probably a very good decision...if mine (115 two), I'd go for the rebuild as well....new 115's, I hear if you can find them, are over $15K.... dc That is what I like to hear haha, just needed a some secondary reassurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HewesYourDaddy Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 Similar thing happened to my 2001 130. I sold the motor for parts and repowered with a 4 stroke Suzuki 140. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaFullCircle Posted July 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 36 minutes ago, HewesYourDaddy said: Similar thing happened to my 2001 130. I sold the motor for parts and repowered with a 4 stroke Suzuki 140. What was your performance like with the 140. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HewesYourDaddy Posted July 15, 2021 Report Share Posted July 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, GaFullCircle said: What was your performance like with the 140. The 140 is on my Pathfinder 1900T. I can squeeze 43-44mph top end. My best cruise is around 4600 rpm (not sure of the speed). I see you’re in Savannah. Maybe we’ll see each other on the water one day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 5 hours ago, HewesYourDaddy said: Similar thing happened to my 2001 130. I sold the motor for parts and repowered with a 4 stroke Suzuki 140. When did you repower ? what year ? dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HewesYourDaddy Posted July 16, 2021 Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 I repowered 2 years ago with a 2013 DF140A that had 70 hrs on it. It was a take off motor that was swapped by its previous owner for a Yamaha. I'm not sure how long the engine was off the boat, but when I first saw the engine, I thought it was brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaFullCircle Posted July 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2021 15 hours ago, HewesYourDaddy said: The 140 is on my Pathfinder 1900T. I can squeeze 43-44mph top end. My best cruise is around 4600 rpm (not sure of the speed). I see you’re in Savannah. Maybe we’ll see each other on the water one day. Absolutely, looking forward to it! If you see a white redfisher buzzing around track me down. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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