whichwaysup Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Okay, running a yamaha OX66 2 stroke. When i first got the boat, i discovered that the oil pump was bad. It wasnt pumping oil from the reserve tank automatically or when I used the manual switch on the engine. I replaced the entire remote oil tank and pump since it was pretty old and the oil was suspect. Things worked great after that, no problems for the last few months and a lot of trips. Yesterday, I took the boat out and 3 minutes out from the ramp (idling) i get the low oil alarm. Checked to make sure the engine was peeing, it was, and water was cool. Pulled the cowling off and checked the oil resevoir on the engine, it is below the line, obviously causing the alarm. I added oil, idled back to the ramp and the alarm went silent. Back on the trailer, I tried the manual switch but the pump didnt respond. I put a voltmeter on the wire from the engine to the remote tank and it doesnt appear that i am getting power from the engine to the pump. I also had a spare wire so i ran it from the engine to the pump, thinking maybe there was corrosion or a break in the other one. No go. A couple of questions: Can i run 12 volts directly to the pump without damaging it? I assume it is a 12 v pump but want to confirm. This will let me either determine that the new pump is the culprit or eliminate it as a suspect. Assuming the pump works and it isnt getting power from the engine, any idea why?? Any other thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Don't have much to offer. You mentioned you checked for power but didn't say anything about the grounds. Did you check ground at connector to the pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 Thanks Hurricane - I didn't check the ground, but based on what I've written below, I can eliminate the concern about an electrical/power issue: It appears that there are a couple things going on: 1) I'm an idiot 2) There actually is something going on that I'm not sure I understand (which may also mean "I'm an idiot in a different way than #1). The known idiot piece of this is that I didn't turn the ignition on when I tested the manual switch in the back of the engine. I didn't realize it had to be in the "on" position in order for the pump to kick on. Yesterday when I tested the pump, I had already put the keys away, so I didn't even think of turning the ignition on. Today, I saw a reference to it, went out and tested it and viola! The pump worked fine and filled up the reservoir. So, the pump isn't a problem, no problem filling the reservoir, we're good. The second issue is more confusion. Why did the reservoir get low in the first place? I had this happen one other time after I'd fixed the oil tank - it happened when I was running in very shallow water with the engine tilted up. When I launched yesterday, I was in a hurry because the ramp was a zoo and I started the engine while the engine was tilted up, then tilted it down after I got going. I saw several references to the fact that there is a trim sender that keeps the pump from running if the engine is tilted. Why that wouldn't have then re-allowed the pump to work once the engine was down, I don't know. Not sure I'm at the bottom of this, but at least I have eliminated the pump as the problem. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted April 10, 2017 Report Share Posted April 10, 2017 The trim sender will keep the pump off so it doesn't try to fill the tank when its tilted and over fill it. Only certain models did this but I think the small block EFI were one that did ( 2.6 OX66) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyB Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 My question was going to be if the tank pumps to a smaller tank up top and if it was full would it not cut the pump off? also i have no experience with the Yamaha but my Opti max got low on the small tank a couple of times. Mercury uses pressure to pump from storage tank to the engine. once while pulling tubes and such i got an alarm. seem the level in the storage tank was low enough that as i rolled the boat to the side hard it must have sucked air. The system was air tight so i just opened the cap on the small tank to vent while it filled. could you possibly be getting an air pocket when you are trimmed high and the electric pump cuts off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFD rtrd. Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 If the motor has a switch that senses when the motor is tilted and stops the flow to the upper tank to keep it from over filling, then maybe you have to turn the key off and restart to reset the switch and start if pumping again. Just a guess, but worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplec Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 For those of us with pumps that have yet to fail..... Please let us know when you figure it out and how you fixed it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Well, I don't know that I've got an update to help much. It magically fixed itself . . . . either this was a one-off situation caused by the engine being tilted when I started the motor and the pump never re-setting, or it is an intermittent problem that will haunt me later. I took her out this morning and checked the oil level in the main (engine mounted) tank before I left. It seemed slightly lower than I had left it when I checked it at the house, but I didn't see any indication of a leak in the system - I'll have to watch that as a possibility. I ran her hard for about 45 minutes - mostly WOT, some normal-to-fast cruising, and then some idling around, then more WOT. No oil alarm at any point. When I got back to the ramp, I checked the main tank again and the oil level was exactly where it was before I launched. It does seem like my main tank takes longer to fill when I use the manual switch than I would expect, so I may have a partially clogged oil filter. I'll have to figure out where it/they are and how to check/replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 The oil filter is by the pump in the line that goes to the tank. They will get clogged over time as they are very small. Get a new one and replace it. https://www.simyamaha.com/Yamaha_Oil_Tank_Filter_p/646-24251-02-00kit.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 AWESOME - thanks - is it easy enough to remove and inspect, or is it simply a matter of buying and replacing? I just installed a new remote tank/line/filter in November, so I'd like to know if it is actually clogged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted April 13, 2017 Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 The pump is slow per say. I have only seen the filter clogged on very old tanks with tons of hours or someone doing something dumb. There is one other thing that may have something to do with this. Depending on oil level status the engine will alarm and will not drive the remote tank to try and fill the engine tank. Some reasoning behind this but rare and I can't remember the scenario. I can tell you that the flat 3 or 4 wire harness between the engine and the tank has been known to fail at the entry point at the engine cowling. Binding from tilting and trimming. Right where the wires enter the engine. This is the harness that looks at your remote tank level and drives the transfer pump to feed oil to the engine mounted pump. Disclaimer, To date since 1985 I have owned over 35 Yamaha outboards but not a 2 stroke since 2010. I may be a little rusty. And you think your a boat hoarder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2017 Lol, now that is boat hoarding! Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Okay, an update. A little more use has narrowed down the issue a bit. The alarm is only going off when the engine is at a low idle, less than 900 rpm or so. Over 1000 and it turns off. The temp indicator on my gauge never flashes, the oil pump reservoir stays full. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted April 21, 2017 Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 Have you changed the impeller since you bought it, might be worth it if not? From what I know, only 3 things can set off the alarm, overtemp, low oil, or the kill switch. Since increase in RPM turns it off, I would lean toward temp. Not sure why the indicator doesn't light, but I don't see how RPM would have an effect on the other 2 possibilities. Unless, there is a wiring issue and the vibration change with RPM is the cause. But with a wiring issue, I would think it to be more intermittent and not just at low RPM. So again back to temp, either the impeller or the sensor. All that said, Im not an Outboard tech, I just play one on the internet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 21, 2017 I heard, but havent confirmed that there is a bypass valve on these that diverts some water from the head at high RPMs. If that were to be getting stuck, it could explain the issue. At low rpm, the water is being diverted. Anyone know if that is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 I've not heard of that, but that doesn't mean it ain't there. Maybe you are referring to the poppet/pressure relief valve, which should be closed at low speed. So if it was stuck open the motor could overheat at low speed. Also could be a thermostat. You can clean out the poppet and test the thermostats in hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lap it Up Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 11 hours ago, whichwaysup said: I heard, but havent confirmed that there is a bypass valve on these that diverts some water from the head at high RPMs. If that were to be getting stuck, it could explain the issue. At low rpm, the water is being diverted. Anyone know if that is true? Overheating at Idle can be a few things but if the poppet valve hasn't been changed in a while it's time to. Poppet valve is spring loaded and opens and closes with water pressure. It's in the back of the block under the electronics. In some cases the poppet, spring, housing and hose are bad. Yamaha metal is commonly poor and the housing corrodes pretty bad. If it hasn't been done, it's time for a full service (complete water pump kit, poppet valve, thermostats, VST flush, all filters, plugs etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Thanks all, how hard is the poppet to remove and check? If i need to replace, anyone have a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Lap it up, the engine had a full servicing before I bought it, but this was not part of it, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulligan Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 The poppet valve is fairly easy to check. On mine, I think all v6's are similar, it is at the bottom of the "v" and has two bolts holding on the cover. You do have to move all the stuff in front of it out of the way to get such as the electronics. There was an updated poppet valve with a diffrent shape that supposedly helped it from getting clogged so easily. With that being said I have had a stuck poppet valve and did not get any alarm, I just had lower water pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted April 22, 2017 Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 It's pretty easy, and prolly not part of a shop service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whichwaysup Posted April 22, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2017 Well, I took the poppet valve out and cleaned it up. It was actually in pretty good shape, but the spring had some corrosion on it and the valve plug was pretty sticky. I suspect that I need to replace it, so i ordered the parts and will do so once it arrives. For any who have this issue, I'll post some links that were helpful for me: Here's a great how-to on finding and replacing the poppet valve: http://www.bbcboards.net/showthread.php?t=34910 Here's the part I ordered. Note that the design of the valve plug is different. https://www.offshoremarineparts.com/75-17-pk1.html?gclid=CjwKEAjw_uvHBRDUkumF0tLFp3cSJACAIHMYW1FF1M8DIKJq6i2B3NgIeiySsr-dnep3qCTBnBnB9RoCYkjw_wcB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ififish Posted April 23, 2017 Report Share Posted April 23, 2017 On 4/12/2017 at 9:10 PM, Capt. Troy said: The pump is slow per say. I have only seen the filter clogged on very old tanks with tons of hours or someone doing something dumb. There is one other thing that may have something to do with this. Depending on oil level status the engine will alarm and will not drive the remote tank to try and fill the engine tank. Some reasoning behind this but rare and I can't remember the scenario. I can tell you that the flat 3 or 4 wire harness between the engine and the tank has been known to fail at the entry point at the engine cowling. Binding from tilting and trimming. Right where the wires enter the engine. This is the harness that looks at your remote tank level and drives the transfer pump to feed oil to the engine mounted pump. Disclaimer, To date since 1985 I have owned over 35 Yamaha outboards but not a 2 stroke since 2010. I may be a little rusty. And you think your a boat hoarder. Wiring harness failed on my hpdi, mechanic knew what it was before I brought to him. Replaced wire harness and all set. Was previously at mechanic for faulty shift selector switch that 2 other shops could not diagnose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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