Bruce J Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 I'm trying to learn (relearn) the bait game for taking out my kids and grandkids. Made an expensive mistake today in the process. I bought 10 dozen croaker and put them in the back center livewell of my 2400. I left them for about 1.5 hours in the well, tied up at my dock. Came back to check on them and they were all dead. The water level had dropped to just over half. I didn't have the recirc or bubbler going while I was gone. With the level drop and no new water coming in, I guess the poor guys were doomed. I had the standpipe screwed in fully and tight. Do you suppose it was still leaking out from the base around the threads? That seems like a lot of water to pass through a tight space that quickly. Should I have left the recirc pump or bubbler going the whole time? Any other suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEM Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 No experience with croaker, but with the water temps rising, and 120 croker!!!, I would think you would need to keep the raw water coming in along with the bubbler working. If you shut off the livewell pump, the water is going to go down to the level of the livewell outlet, which sounds like what happened. To keep a full livewell, you have to keep the standpipe in, or a plug, and you have to shut off the livewell valve. But, I don't know how hardy croakers are, and whether you have to keep a steady supply of raw water flowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurricane Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 Some water will leak out with the standpipe, and that is a good thing. That helps all the toxins that settle to the bottom get out of the well. Also thats a good amount of bait that will need good water turn over. I would say leave the pump running, 1.5 hours shouldn't run down the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce J Posted June 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 Thanks. The standpipe remained In place but the water level fell to several inches below the top of the standpipe. Is there some other water outlet inside the well other than through the top of the standpipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEM Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 16 minutes ago, Bruce J said: Thanks. The standpipe remained In place but the water level fell to several inches below the top of the standpipe. Is there some other water outlet inside the well other than through the top of the standpipe? Like I said above, if you did not turn off the valve at the pump, and the raw water outlet in the livewell is lower than the top of the standpipe, then water will backflow through the pump and the seawater chest. You need to see where the raw water outlet in the livewell is. If you did shut the valve off, then water must be leaking around the standpipe fitting. For example, I kept some shrimp alive in my livewell over this past weekend. I have a recirculating aerator on a timer switch. I turned off the baitwell pump, shut the valve off, and turned on the timed aerator. The water lever stayed at the top of the standpipe, and the intermittent aerator kept the water oxygenated enough to keep the shrimp alive for 24 hours without running my battery down too low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce J Posted June 5, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 I see what you mean now. The water was flowing back through what I thought were inlets only. That definitely was the cause of the water level problem. But since I've now shut off the inlet, how does the waste get out? I assume I have to run the pump to bring in new water, push the level back up a little (since some always laps out with boat movement) to top of the standpipe, so the water can exchange. Do you just alternate opening and closing the valve so you can run the pump every now and then? In your reply above you say you aerate only for the shrimp overnight and that's good enough. Does that work for baitfish too. Croaker are said to be quite hardy, but I sure killed them quickly enough. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEM Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 Good question for someone who knows. I have no experience with croakers, especially 120 of them! I suspect, tho, any type of baitfish needs continual raw water flow, especially 10 dozen of them suckers!!!! And double especially if I paid good money for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smilemaker Posted June 5, 2017 Report Share Posted June 5, 2017 If the inlet is down low you can stop the backflow by placing a loop on the inlet hose with the top as high as possible. Its heigth will determine the level that it can seep back to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce J Posted June 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 I've seen guides load a lot more than 10 dozen, but they know what they're doing too. Thanks for the tip, Smilemaker. I haven't looked yet to see how accessible the tubing is, but that would make it easier if I didn't have to keep opening and closing the valve. I have two inlets in my live well one is right near the bottom and one is about half way up. The water would drain out until the upper one started sucking air I suspect the hose for the lower one is connected to it. I'll give it another try tomorrow, but with about half the bait in case I have a few more lessons to learn the hard way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldestCityLocal Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 For keep bait alive over nite with it in the water I just let my live well pump run all nite and have my on board charger hooked up. Hell I've had two live wells run all nite like that. With baitfish u need current and oxygen. Shrimp are happy with just oxygen. Just my 2cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCFD rtrd. Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 44 minutes ago, OldestCityLocal said: For keep bait alive over nite with it in the water I just let my live well pump run all nite and have my on board charger hooked up. Hell I've had two live wells run all nite like that. With baitfish u need current and oxygen. Shrimp are happy with just oxygen. Just my 2cents. My experience is that Croakers, Grunts and Pinfish are all similar with regard to oxygen/water requirements. The only way to make your situation work is to follow the quote above. Without the live-well running these types of bait fish won't last 30 min. in this heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin-addict Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 live well needs to be kept running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, fin-addict said: live well needs to be kept running. This ^^^^^^^^^^ for sure. And no way leave your live well running unattended over night. Way to many things can go wrong and sink your boat. Get a bait pen for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurem Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 If the water is to hot and they die you may want to freeze some small milk jugs the night before and put one in the livewell during the day. it will keep the water cooler and the other one can stay in your cooler to keep your drinks cold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEM Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 36 minutes ago, Capt. Troy said: This ^^^^^^^^^^ for sure. And no way leave your live well running unattended over night. Way to many things can go wrong and sink your boat. Get a bait pen for that. If I was going to make it a habit of keeping bait overnight or for several days, I would definitely come up with some kind of pen. Shrimp are one thing, but bait feesh are a different animal. Maybe just a big round plastic trash can with a bunch of holes drilled in it will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldestCityLocal Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 Tried everything. But like stated above didn't like leaving livewells running everynite so I built me two 110gal ponds for tanks and use a pool pump to get water flow from our canal. I second the ice trick works good when in warm water 80 degrees and above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 Ice will not work if you are running raw water into your well. The exchange rate is to fast to cool the water. It will work for shrimp if you are just using the bubbler. 120 Croakers are gonna die without raw water exchange. They will use up all the 02 in the water and their waste from them will contaminate the well. You need to leave the raw water pump on for large quantities of finned live bait. "PERIOD" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce J Posted June 6, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 Thanks for the great input everyone. I feel like I really understand the baitwell operation now. I do have a bait pen already, so they'll be going in there now anytime I'm not using the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurem Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 I have heard the same thing Troy is saying about the baits waste. You have to get the waste out of the livewell because it is ammonia based. The bait ends up drowning in there own pee. Yuck. Sorry for that visual guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 41 minutes ago, Bruce J said: Thanks for the great input everyone. I feel like I really understand the baitwell operation now. I do have a bait pen already, so they'll be going in there now anytime I'm not using the boat. I heard a scream in the cosmos from Texas of the croakers - "croaking"...their calls for help were deafening....poor guyz....bet the crabs in the canal were eat'n well that night Shrimp and crabs - two fish tank bublers in a small swiming pool (round plastic) with 2" of water and I blow a fan over the water to keep it cool- will keep them for two days....no problem.... Pinfish - they can last over night in a livewell, even if it's not running - can't kill dem suckers... Any other white bait....like they said, gotta have water moving...but, not too hard or fierce as you'll kill them from swim exhaustion. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 Dinno "Pinfish - they can last over night in a livewell, even if it's not running - can't kill dem suckers... " Sorry, I will disagree. If they ain't dead they will be close. Not happening in the boats we have. 120 live baits will not last in Florida or most places and be the baits you go through the trouble/cost to acquire. They will be floaters or less than a live bait as I want them. Live bait fishing is an art to some degree. The art is having live bait that looks and swims like live bait. If it doesn't, why bother. Buy shrimp or frozen bait. There is a very good reason there is so much effort put into bait wells from every builder from 16 to 80 feet. Tuna tubes, pressurized wells and so on. You take me to your honey hole spots in the Glades and let me bring a blacked out well of white bait swimming proud and I will smoke them fish. I believe another member POLE POSITION will back me up on this. If you live bait fish you need a well designed to work like shown in the video. The rest is just hype with systems that will not keep bait as live bait should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 Quote Dinno "Pinfish - they can last over night in a livewell, even if it's not running - can't kill dem suckers... " Sorry, I will disagree. If they ain't dead they will be close. Not happening in the boats we have. 120 live baits will not last in Florida or most places and be the baits you go through the trouble/cost to acquire. They will be floaters or less than a live bait as I want them. Troy, I didn't mean to say you could hold 120 of them over night....I"ve held a dozen or so in a totally full live well on Pathy 22 with dual bubbler..... dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 25 minutes ago, Wanaflatsfish said: Troy, I didn't mean to say you could hold 120 of them over night....I"ve held a dozen or so in a totally full live well on Pathy 22 with dual bubbler..... dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Troy Posted June 6, 2017 Report Share Posted June 6, 2017 6 minutes ago, Capt. Troy said: Whoops, Power Bump here To the OP and others that are watching. The bait thing is an art and very time consuming. Big money is spent on live bait in many locations and thus the reason for wells and processes to keep them healthy and being like fresh caught. It differs from local to local and the way you fish. If live bait is your thing there is only one way to keep large quantities. Good clean low velocity water to simulate the environment you caught them in. After all, this is why you were in the dark running to find good clean water to catch them. I ran through a hundred pinfish Thursday. Due to water quality in my marina the pens were not an option. I had to hook and line them the morning of my trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin-addict Posted June 7, 2017 Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 not to offend anyone, but why do you need to black out a live well, sometimes two. this has been a sore point with me. then we complain there is no bait around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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