Advice on VHF radio and antenna

[FROZEN]

Guys,

I currently fish the Homosassa and Crystal River areas. I have a 2200TE and use a hand held radio. It's fine for me close in, but I've started venturing out 25 miles from cell coverage on nice calm, flat days. My sons, wife, and buddy boaters have convinced me to "power up". I do not have a T Top, never will. And cutting holes in my console is like me operating on my own kids. So I've decided to use a reputable local marine electronics company for the upgrade of all the electronics including a new big screen GPS sonar package in the fall.

Radio

I plan on replacing the GPS /sonar package in the fall with the latest and greatest. Anything but Garmin! So the radio needs to be compatible with 2000 networking. I'm going to let my local marine electronics store help me determine brand since they will live with their total installation in the coming years. QUESTION.....Do I need AIS capability? Anyone have on their PF and any opinions would be appreciated. I cant see where I'd ever use but I might not understand its benefits.

Antenna type and placement

To me, this is the "biggie". I know it's the secret to a clear transmit and receive,  and I won't skimp on the selection and installation. 

QUESTIONS....Does anyone use the SS whip type antennas? Opinions? Thy seem less obtrusive than the long fiberglass "poles". What length do you use? Where do you mount? Top of the console, or side? I have the smaller console with side grab rails only, and the small "Venturi"wind screen. I like having an unobstructive casting platform.

I'm sure their are more considerations that I need to think about. Any pictures of your antenna placement would be appreciated, along with "I wish I'd done it that way" stories.

Thanks in advance for your inputs!

[JEM]

I have a Shakespeare SS antenna.  I do not want anything sticking higher than the grab rail over the windshield.  I did it for the same reasons you stated, I don't want it in the way of casting.  Plus, it is idiot proof......nobody will grab it as a handhold.  It is unobtrusive and really, looks alright.   It is mounted using a quality SS ratchet antenna mount through bolted in the side of the console.  It has worked perfectly for me.  I can't swear to it, but if your Coast Guard station is near where you boat at, I believe they would be able to pick you up 25 miles offshore, even though it is only a 3' antenna.  If I am not mistaken, most SS whip antennas are 3db.  I believe that maybe Digital makes a 3' SS whip antenna, which would probably be a higher quality than Shakespeare. 

[Bamaskeet]

I think it was Hobo that recommended mounting the antenna load cell on top of the console, in a corner and keeping the SS whip in the rod locker and screwing it together when you plan to use the radio.  That's the system I use, but I seldom use my radio.

Although the Coast Guard runs a high antenna and extra power, I doubt that this setup would work much beyond 10-15 miles, on a good day.

[FROZEN]

Thanks JEM and Bamaskeet, I was hoping someone would endorse the steel whip type. All those reasons listed by you guys are why I still use a handheld. I'm leaning toward the dash mount a la Hobo, because I'm doing away with the Garmin GPS antenna, and it might fit there instead of a hole cover.

 

Another question I've always had.....what is that football shaped, chrome, fake vent, between the nav light and "2200"? I've got one on one side of my TE, and have never figured out if it had a purpose, or a cheesy decoration.

[JEM]

Grill for the horn. 

[FROZEN]

1 hour ago, JEM said:

Grill for the horn. 

Ah ha!!! Makes perfect sense. Many thanks.

[jason p]

Something to think about since VHF is "line of sight".

An antenna 10' feet off the water has a radio horizon (the farthest possible point of signal propagation) of just 4 miles. This varies with frequencies so I'm speaking in generalities, which is what the internet is all about Using 156.8 MHz (Channel 16) the effective range would be around 5NM between small boats.

This doesn't take into account height of the receiving antenna, relays from other transmitters, etc... this is purely sort of a worst case scenario.

Another important thing to remember is that VHF antennas are vertical polarization antennas, meaning they must be used in a vertical position to be effective.

Basically what I'm saying is the higher the better. Hobo's method mentioned above is best, even better is to have a length of coax so you could tape, clamp, whatever, your removable antenna to a gaff, fishing pole, etc.. and stand on the tallest point of the boat in a real emergency to maximize the range of your transmission. A lot of guys in skiffs, me included, who fish ENP regularly (tiny boats and tall mangroves in the middle of nowhere) have 25-30' of antenna coax so you can use a push pole as an "antenna extender" in an emergency.

[rckeat]

So here is one option to consider. I have the Digital 3' whip antenna which has a spring loaded quick disconnect for the mast.  As you can see here, I mounted the base on the side of my windshield which gets it a few inches higher than mounting on top of the console (although not quite as clean looking).

 

I store the mast under the leaning post seat.  I installed 3 wire holds that you simply slide the mast into.  Like another poster, I don't use my VHF often so this keeps it out of the way when I am not using it.

[Joe M]

Another vote for the steel whip with the spring loaded quick disconnect. When the whip is installed it drags against the overhead of my garage door.  I keep the whip in a bow locker for an emergency, but I also have a handheld clipped to the top of my windshield for routine use. Pics of both applications attached.

 

 

[FROZEN]

Awesome ideas!!

Next question... Antennas are rated by "gain" I.e. 3, 6, or 9db. I am assuming for a non sailboat, close in fishing <20 mi, rocking bayboat, a 3 db would best? We are primarilary using the vhf as a safety device. The CG has tall antennas, so line of sight at 20 miles would be better with a 3 db, or a 6db? 

[Fish Food]

This article may help you...

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/choosing-and-using-marine-vhf-antenna

Also, remember, whatever your range is, there may be other boats in the area that can help aside from the coast guard.

If you don't already have an EPIRB, I would recommend investing in one if you are going to be out that far.

I used a 4' Digital fiberglass antenna on the side of my console on my PF 1900.  Not the best picture, but the only one I have available right now.  I didn't mount them too high because I had a bimini top.  Good luck.

[FROZEN]

5 hours ago, Fish Food said:

This article may help you...

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/choosing-and-using-marine-vhf-antenna

Also, remember, whatever your range is, there may be other boats in the area that can help aside from the coast guard.

If you don't already have an EPIRB, I would recommend investing in one if you are going to be out that far.

I used a 4' Digital fiberglass antenna on the side of my console on my PF 1900.  Not the best picture, but the only one I have available right now.  I didn't mount them too high because I had a bimini top.  Good luck.

Thanks Fish Food.....good article and it helped me a lot. And great point about the Bimini. I ordered one from Hertzog last week, so I'll be careful of mounting the antenna to assure use with top up.

[jason p]

13 hours ago, Fish Food said:

...whatever your range is, there may be other boats in the area that can help aside from the coast guard...

...and there may not be. I'm not trying to start an argument or insult anyone but this is not the right way to think about this.

Taken from the article citied above:

"Even the best antenna won’t perform when placed too close to another antenna using similar frequencies (AIS or another VHF), or when mounted too low or too near metal objects." 

Sacrificing emergency radio range to clear a bimini top is like packing a tiny first-aid kit so you have more room for... well anything. Based on the quote above what do you think the bimini top frame is going to do to your signal if you had to transmit / receive in the case of an emergency? Is everyone on board instructed to stow the top in the case where an emergency transmition is required? If you have a foldable top of any kind I would strongly suggest an extra length of coax and  movable antenna.

[bernieNC]

I guess I am no help here. I have one of those "long fiberglass "poles"" (8') on top of a T Top. I will add that I have had good radio contact with my marina from 15-20 miles away. I guess I should also mention that I also have a Garmin "GPS /sonar package". LOL

[triplec]

I also run the S Steel antenna on my skiff. Serves its purpose but as mentioned has limitation. I favor the ICOM VHF and didn't see where anyone suggested but make sure your rigger connects the GPS to your VHF for DSC. Literally two wires yet most never do it. Registration is simple. Yet another redundancy safety element that we all hope we never use.  By all means invest a couple more hundred in an EPIRB or PLB. It is a proven life saver and makes SAR efforts so much more effective.  http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2015/december/setting-up-a-vhf-radio-with-dsc.asp

[fin-addict]

1 hour ago, bernieNC said:

I guess I am no help here. I have one of those "long fiberglass "poles"" (8') on top of a T Top. I will add that I have had good radio contact with my marina from 15-20 miles away. I guess I should also mention that I also have a Garmin "GPS /sonar package". LOL

same as you. reached cape coral from punta gorda, very surprised to say the least. one time only.

[FROZEN]

12 hours ago, jason p said:

...and there may not be. I'm not trying to start an argument or insult anyone but this is not the right way to think about this.

Taken from the article citied above:

"Even the best antenna won’t perform when placed too close to another antenna using similar frequencies (AIS or another VHF), or when mounted too low or too near metal objects." 

Sacrificing emergency radio range to clear a bimini top is like packing a tiny first-aid kit so you have more room for... well anything. Based on the quote above what do you think the bimini top frame is going to do to your signal if you had to transmit / receive in the case of an emergency? Is everyone on board instructed to stow the top in the case where an emergency transmition is required? If you have a foldable top of any kind I would strongly suggest an extra length of coax and  movable antenna.

 

Thanks all,

No offense taken.....I appreciate the input and is precisely the reason I participate in these discussions, and ask my dumb questions. I do not consider myself cavalier or unsafe. As a result of good advice and suggestions from several threads, I have assembled a ditch bag with an EPIRB,and other safety gear and water, and everyone on board MUST wear a provided Type 1 vest or one of the auto inflate mustangs I provide. The kill lanyard is always worn when the motor is on. I had a physician friend assemble a first class first aid kit with sutures, and sessions with him on how and when to use and not use. Also have 2 additional PLBs registered and worn. And 2 handhelds with registered GPS/DSC

As I stated above, I'm upgrading the electronics by a professional installer, including chartplotter/sonar and the VHF. The VHF without question will have AIS and DSC thanks to your suggestions.

Also, as a result of previous threads, got a CG 6pax ticket.

I consider the electronics an important primary safety system. I'm really replacing the old Garmin primarily to get XM weather. I have used it in aircraft for many years, and although not a replacement for radar, it does provide a strategic overview of the current situation. IOW, another data source to make intelligent decisions.

The antenna placement with the Bimini up is something I had not paid enough attention to, and I'm grateful to have my eyes opened.

I'll call the professionals Monday and see what they say. I'll also report back.

[craSSh]

After pondering where to mount my antenna for greatest effectiveness, here's what I came up with. I unscrew the antenna and keep it in the front compartment. I got a Standard Horizon gx1700 with built in gps 

[Shindig]

On my last boat I had the 3' whip digital spring release antenna on my console.

Since I got my new boat I just haven't decided where to mount one that will be effective and clean, so for now I keep an emergency antenna with 25' of coaxle  cable connected and coiled up under the console.  As it is, when I'm on open water I get some range, In an emergency I can move it to the top of T-top or affix it to a pole.

 

[FROZEN]

6 hours ago, Shindig said:

On my last boat I had the 3' whip digital spring release antenna on my console.

Since I got my new boat I just haven't decided where to mount one that will be effective and clean, so for now I keep an emergency antenna with 25' of coaxle  cable connected and coiled up under the console.  As it is, when I'm on open water I get some range, In an emergency I can move it to the top of T-top or affix it to a pole.

 

Shindig,

I'm curious as to what you consider "..some range." Coiled up, is it less effective as you're old mounted 3' whip? Or a handheld?

ive listened to myself with a 5 watt handheld several times on the automated "radio check" channel in my area, and wonder if anyone can understand me from <2 miles away. 

Thanks!

[Shindig]

Not really sure, when out on the ocean I can hear all the charter captains in local area and have received radio checks.  I don't really use it much and if I was in a situation that I needed it I would pull it out and extend as high as possible.  I can tell you it is not as good as my 3' whip mounted on console as it is..  I just wanted the  emergency antenna on hand until I figure where I want to mount  one.