General disarray Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Well if you were part of my "prop and RPM" thread I found my issue - I had a single injector clogged and not firing. Wow what a difference was able to turn about 5200 RPM and get to 53 MPH and it came out of the hole like a jet ski. Then we had a problem . Ran the boat for about 8 miles mid throttle and tested the top end 1-2x didn't notice too much difference. Parked the boat came back out an hour later went to power up and noticed it didnt come out of the hole quite like it did earlier and I was only able to turn about 4800 and 49ish MPH. I tried running the opposite way too negating wind but same results. I'm thinking VST. Any other ideas? Whats the chance of a cylinder not firing. Motor is an 2004 200 HPDI Vmax- Here is what was just done: Service: 6 new spark plugs both low pressure fuel pumps new racor new filter in the clear cylinder all 6 injectors cleaned. Medium pressure filter and VST were NOT changed Fuel: Existing fuel with Ring free- just had added some marine 360 stabil (called yamaha and they said it was good to use). Checked Racor and zero water in it. One thing I did notice is after starting it back up I did get a few seconds of the 2 stroke smoke even after just running it an hour ago Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulligan Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Vst and mid pressure filters would be a good start. Were all the filters changed in the injectors and HP pump when the injectors were cleaned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Injectors were completely serviced is all I know - I doubt the HP pump was touched as I do not see that on the bill. Hows the VST to change on this thing. Looks semi simple if I can keep all the hoses attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mulligan Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Pretty simple. Drain the vst tank. Remove the 3 bolts holding it on so it is easier to remove filter. Then just remove the screws on top to drop the pan. I think there is a small hose you have to remove to give yourself some room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Awesome. I am really hoping thats it because it put a smile on my face when I powered up that first time. I mean I can't imagine I would already be a cylinder down again right? How would I test that if so? Also do you know torque specs for those 3 bolts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall Tails Posted December 23, 2017 Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 Back when I had an HPDI V-Max I had a power loss issue as you describe. It was the VST. That filter in there was brown with fuel resin gunk. Changed it and issue was resolved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, Tall Tails said: Back when I had an HPDI V-Max I had a power loss issue as you describe. It was the VST. That filter in there was brown with fuel resin gunk. Changed it and issue was resolved. Your lips to Gods ears. I can't take much more after just dropping $1400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smilemaker Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 When servicing injector pumps it is critical to do everything at one time. ALL FILTERS SHOULD BE CHANGED. If there was trash in an old filter it can clog a new or serviced injector fairly quickly. The big question when servicing injectors on an hpdi is did they change the small mystery filters in the high pressure pump. Not hard to do when changing injectors but a lot of trouble on its own. Dropping a cylinder can also be due to no spark. Either a bad wire or the jacket the plug connects to. Ignition coils can also be a culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 if you had a clogged injector everything up stream should have been cleaned/filters replaced when the injectors were cleaned. After servicing the complete fuel system boat needs to be rum with a mechanical gauge on the medium pressure pump, and lap top hooked up to verify high pressure fuel is in spec. Ask your tech what the med and high pressure numbers were, if they dont know find a new shop before you lean out the powerhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Responses below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, smilemaker said: When servicing injector pumps it is critical to do everything at one time. ALL FILTERS SHOULD BE CHANGED. If there was trash in an old filter it can clog a new or serviced injector fairly quickly. The big question when servicing injectors on an hpdi is did they change the small mystery filters in the high pressure pump. Not hard to do when changing injectors but a lot of trouble on its own. Dropping a cylinder can also be due to no spark. Either a bad wire or the jacket the plug connects to. Ignition coils can also be a culprit. it was definitely dropping due to the injector - flow report showed half output. Spark plugs were all changed on this last go as well. Also I doubt the HP mystery filters were changed Also I don’t know if this helps but the original issue stemmed from water in the fuel I Belive- not to say it couldn’t be trash or it’s probably not any better but at any rate there is no more water in the fuel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 48 minutes ago, ChrisB said: if you had a clogged injector everything up stream should have been cleaned/filters replaced when the injectors were cleaned. After servicing the complete fuel system boat needs to be rum with a mechanical gauge on the medium pressure pump, and lap top hooked up to verify high pressure fuel is in spec. Ask your tech what the med and high pressure numbers were, if they dont know find a new shop before you lean out the powerhead Yeah I’m starting to get the feeling they stumbled through this. I know the injectors were serviced by a third party with full flow reports so I would imagine that the injector filters were done i do know the Vst filters were not changed everything pre -vst was. Should I change Vst give it another rip to see how it goes or should I not move it until I have that answer and if they don’t know get it in another shop? Anything I can do to know if it’s running lean such as see if I get a temp alarm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Starting off with everything clean and verifying fuel pressures is the only way to know for sure. Anything else is a gamble, when we get a HPDI in with running issues compression test and fuel pressure check is first thing done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Other question is if I do the VST and the problem persists showing it’s the mystery filters- would a mechanic then want to redo everything I already did like the VSt? Or would it then point specific knowing that everything except that has been changed? To add some clarity I do not see any surging or sudden drops its just like the motor won't go over the rpm like its maxed out or over propped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, ChrisB said: Starting off with everything clean and verifying fuel pressures is the only way to know for sure. Anything else is a gamble, when we get a HPDI in with running issues compression test and fuel pressure check is first thing done. You aren’t in central Florida are you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 No sir Texas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 Dang. You would have had some business. Should probably just tackle the VST and HP mystery filters. There are only 2 in the 200 right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 The 200 Vmax is a big block 3.3 so you have the double pumps. https://www.injectorrx.com/yamaha-hpdi-mystery-filters/ https://www.injectorrx.com/yamaha-hpdi/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 7 hours ago, General disarray said: Dang. You would have had some business. Should probably just tackle the VST and HP mystery filters. There are only 2 in the 200 right? go on line and check for a good 5 start yamaha mechanic in your area...they have specific training and will insure the job is done correctly. Dc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 I know where one is i was hoping I could cross off a couple things to keep costs down and because I was going to go out this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 4 hours ago, ChrisB said: The 200 Vmax is a big block 3.3 so you have the double pumps. https://www.injectorrx.com/yamaha-hpdi-mystery-filters/ https://www.injectorrx.com/yamaha-hpdi/ Sounds good from what I’ve folllowed on other forums it seems like a straight forward job. Thinking to do them all then bring it to the master mechanic for pressure test and run through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fin-addict Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 thought the 200 was the same as the 150 block, told it was awhile back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 1 hour ago, fin-addict said: thought the 200 was the same as the 150 block, told it was awhile back. Actually I just went out and checked. Single pump - so thats the one with the one filter in the pump block and then the other underneath kind of hidden right? See attached photo Also was recommended to get the YDS software and check these items myself. I am thinking to do that for $60 and see if I can see the pressure drop off. if its at the rail and after the VST I know where my issue is. I am thinking to go through these minimum steps before brining it to a mechanic. Keep in mind I JUST picked it up this week from having the above listed done to the tune of $1400. Needless to say it won't be going back to that guy - in fact wifes dad knows one of the local master mechanics. 1) Change VST and Mid pressure - as some have stated needs to be done and will be good for me to know and do anyways 2) Check pressure on rail and VST using YDS 3) If rail pressure is down then change the mystery filters, if rail pressure is up probably just take to the mechanic. I have some level of technical skill and really should learn to do these things to save my self some serious money long term. Outboards just tend to make me nervous as I haven't really ever worked on one - PLUS the high cost if you are wrong and get stuck on the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General disarray Posted December 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 I think I have a game plan - 1) Vst/mid filters replace - test to see if power restored 2) if same symptom test fuel rail pressure - fuel rail pressure good bring back to guy to redo for his mess up not changing the filters 3) if rail pressure down do basket filters 4) if problem persists Yamaha master mechanic here I come Thoughts? Now to find Vst, mid filter, and gasket when all locals are closed until after jan 1. Anyone know simyamahas holiday hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted December 24, 2017 Report Share Posted December 24, 2017 7 hours ago, fin-addict said: thought the 200 was the same as the 150 block, told it was awhile back. 2005 and up the Vmax 200 was a 3.3 he must have an early model if he has a single pump 2.6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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