Need all members help

[DavidG]

Guys and Gals, I spoke yesterday with Bruce, The GS13 who is in charge of safety at the Miami Coast Guard Center. He is definitely on board with writing all legislators of this state to propose a law to make it mandatory that ALL registered marine vessels to have either a PLB or a EPRB on board every vessel. After a lengthy conversation. He advised the Coast Guard would LOVE to have this made into Law. The argument would be, Why should I have to have a locating device on my boat if I’m never offshore? 2 reasonable answers #1 The guy who buys a 32 ft Contender who says he’ll never go offshore just so he doesn’t have to spend approximately 500.00 dollars. #2 The majority of recreational fatalities occur inshore. 2 true examples I was involved with. A hysterical woman called 911 saying her husband was in Cardiac Arrest and they were back in Nassau Sounds. She had no idea where and had no experience operating the boat. It took over a hour to find this boat and of course did not turn out well. 2nd incident, same scenario but was a lightning strike which hit her husband , tide left her in the mud and again had no idea where they were. Bad outcome as well. These are just 2 examples. I ask all of you who have been offshore and seen a way to small boat out there due to inexperienced boat owners not realizing how fast weather and seas can change. Now I give you the pros and cons! Cons: They cost 300-500 dollars. Pros: They save lives! , Coast Guard or local departments have a quicker and more accurate location and can get to you faster! I’d personally like to name this the McCluney/ Walker act. These were 2 FFs one from Jax, and his friend a fellow FF out of Virginia, who were taken their recently passed fathers boat on its last fishing trip before selling it. The last ping of a cell phone was approximately 10 miles off Port Canaveral. That was the last thing ever heard. One tackle bag was found approximately 60 miles off of St Augustine. Nothing has been found since! I have NEVER seen a more extensive SAR incident that went on for a week. I then asked Bruce the cost of this incident and he advised it was well into multi millions and that wasn’t just Federal. You have to figure in Federal money for man power, multiple aircraft and vessels not counting maintenance and Fuel, State resources to include manpower, FWC vessels and maintenance and Fuel, City Resources FD and Police manpower, and water craft and fuel and maintenance of all equipment utilized. As you can see, each incident is extremely costly! A PLB or EPRB could save lives as well as millions. Guys and Gals, catching fish and making memories with our friends and families is what I feel fishing is all about. But safety has to be priority. If you’ve read this far, I truly thank you! Please take a few minutes and write to our State legislators and urge this bill to be proposed! Hopefully all water based States will do like wise! A life is to precious not to act!

                                          I Thank all of you......David

[Shallowminded6]

46 minutes ago, DavidG said:

Guys and Gals, I spoke yesterday with Bruce, The GS13 who is in charge of safety at the Miami Coast Guard Center. He is definitely on board with writing all legislators of this state to propose a law to make it mandatory that ALL registered marine vessels to have either a PLB or a EPRB on board every vessel. After a lengthy conversation. He advised the Coast Guard would LOVE to have this made into Law. The argument would be, Why should I have to have a locating device on my boat if I’m never offshore? 2 reasonable answers #1 The guy who buys a 32 ft Contender who says he’ll never go offshore just so he doesn’t have to spend approximately 500.00 dollars. #2 The majority of recreational fatalities occur inshore. 2 true examples I was involved with. A hysterical woman called 911 saying her husband was in Cardiac Arrest and they were back in Nassau Sounds. She had no idea where and had no experience operating the boat. It took over a hour to find this boat and of course did not turn out well. 2nd incident, same scenario but was a lightning strike which hit her husband , tide left her in the mud and again had no idea where they were. Bad outcome as well. These are just 2 examples. I ask all of you who have been offshore and seen a way to small boat out there due to inexperienced boat owners not realizing how fast weather and seas can change. Now I give you the pros and cons! Cons: They cost 300-500 dollars. Pros: They save lives! , Coast Guard or local departments have a quicker and more accurate location and can get to you faster! I’d personally like to name this the McCluney/ Walker act. These were 2 FFs one from Jax, and his friend a fellow FF out of Virginia, who were taken their recently passed fathers boat on its last fishing trip before selling it. The last ping of a cell phone was approximately 10 miles off Port Canaveral. That was the last thing ever heard. One tackle bag was found approximately 60 miles off of St Augustine. Nothing has been found since! I have NEVER seen a more extensive SAR incident that went on for a week. I then asked Bruce the cost of this incident and he advised it was well into multi millions and that wasn’t just Federal. You have to figure in Federal money for man power, multiple aircraft and vessels not counting maintenance and Fuel, State resources to include manpower, FWC vessels and maintenance and Fuel, City Resources FD and Police manpower, and water craft and fuel and maintenance of all equipment utilized. As you can see, each incident is extremely costly! A PLB or EPRB could save lives as well as millions. Guys and Gals, catching fish and making memories with our friends and families is what I feel fishing is all about. But safety has to be priority. If you’ve read this far, I truly thank you! Please take a few minutes and write to our State legislators and urge this bill to be proposed! Hopefully all water based States will do like wise! A life is to precious not to act!

                                          I Thank all of you......David

Im sorry for the loss of your fellow firefighter, I too am on the job and work coastline areas along with the lagoon, lakes and ditches. Seen quite a few boating/diving accidents. I agree they are helpful, but I differ in the terms of making things “mandatory” and more regulatory laws from the coast guard or local patrol. I believe it is your responsibility to keep you and your crew safe. Its your responsibility to turn down trips because of an unfit captain or boat. Relying on government to provide safety land or water is how society has become inept in keeping ouselves safe. So in regards to writing for more regulation I disagree. If you have a way to get grants or discounts to make it more accessible, I am on board 100%.  

[NCTribute]

It becomes a slippery slope. For example, here in NC people use the same ramps to fish inshore and/or to largemouth bass fish, so who would be required to have a PLB or EPIRB? Is it any motorized vessel, so the guy in the kayak with a trolling motor needs one? I have a Garmin InReach+, so I see the need. But if you are not in an area out of cell phone coverage think it would be a stretch to make a device mandatory. Then there is the enforcement aspect, I rarely encounter LEO’s on the water, so think most people would just ignore the rule.

[DavidG]

I truly appreciate all the input whether for or against. THIS is not fully due to our missing firefighters but for future incidents which we all know will happen. Just 2 weeks ago here in Jax, a witness watched a commercial vessel running in circles until it finally hit a piling of the Buckman bridge. They recovered the 20 year old body 3 days later. This was approx 15-20 miles from the St John’s River inlet. His Dad spent his life crabbing but is in bad shape medically so his son whose been crabbing since he was 8 was trying to help his family. So yes he had the experience on the water. NC you as well make some valid points that can be answered which is enforcement. Myself prior to my injury and selling my off shore boat became a avid Kayak fisherman. I loved it and noticed a increase in popularity both young and older fisherman and fisherwomen. I ended up selling for pennies after my injury. The way to enforce this is to be able to show a valid updated registered PLD or EPRB before you get your new hull sticker. Sounds harsh I know but do we complain when we have to show a valid Drivers License or proof of insurance before we get new Car tags.? Shallowminded you also bring a valid point that a owner would willingly want to spend 300-500 for a safety device when it could go for a new Rod and reel? I’m just throwing numbers out there but the average price for a 21ft single outboard vessel with no frills go for around 80,000.00. 500.00 extra is just a drop in the bucket. We are required now to have life jackets,flares etc..etc.. now. What good is that when your in the Gulf Stream heading to Nova Scotia via the Gulf Stream at 20 knots a Hr? That whistle can only be heard for a certain distance lol. For what it’s worth, I have a close friend who was hired by a Boat owner to Captain his Battle wagon 60 ft + Hattaras offshore of St Augustine as the owner entertained and fished with his 5 invited guest. Unfortunately the boat caught fire 70 miles offshore and as John P told me, there was NO time to even grab a life jacket. Both of us then were in our young 40s both in shape. He tried his best to keep the owner afloat as well as himself as the others had already gone under and after 6 hours he let the owner go as he was fixing to go under as well. Luckily a commercial fishing boat saw the smoke and he was the only survivor of this incident. He has never gone offshore since! I truly understand everyone’s concern and I love the comments but to all...Think of the lives that can be saved......David

[Shallowminded6]

7 minutes ago, DavidG said:

I truly appreciate all the input whether for or against. THIS is not fully due to our missing firefighters but for future incidents which we all know will happen. Just 2 weeks ago here in Jax, a witness watched a commercial vessel running in circles until it finally hit a piling of the Buckman bridge. They recovered the 20 year old body 3 days later. This was approx 15-20 miles from the St John’s River inlet. His Dad spent his life crabbing but is in bad shape medically so his son whose been crabbing since he was 8 was trying to help his family. So yes he had the experience on the water. NC you as well make some valid points that can be answered which is enforcement. Myself prior to my injury and selling my off shore boat became a avid Kayak fisherman. I loved it and noticed a increase in popularity both young and older fisherman and fisherwomen. I ended up selling for pennies after my injury. The way to enforce this is to be able to show a valid updated registered PLD or EPRB before you get your new hull sticker. Sounds harsh I know but do we complain when we have to show a valid Drivers License or proof of insurance before we get new Car tags.? Shallowminded you also bring a valid point that a owner would willingly want to spend 300-500 for a safety device when it could go for a new Rod and reel? I’m just throwing numbers out there but the average price for a 21ft single outboard vessel with no frills go for around 80,000.00. 500.00 extra is just a drop in the bucket. We are required now to have life jackets,flares etc..etc.. now. What good is that when your in the Gulf Stream heading to Nova Scotia via the Gulf Stream at 20 knots a Hr? That whistle can only be heard for a certain distance lol. For what it’s worth, I have a close friend who was hired by a Boat owner to Captain his Battle wagon 60 ft + Hattaras offshore of St Augustine as the owner entertained and fished with his 5 invited guest. Unfortunately the boat caught fire 70 miles offshore and as John P told me, there was NO time to even grab a life jacket. Both of us then were in our young 40s both in shape. He tried his best to keep the owner afloat as well as himself as the others had already gone under and after 6 hours he let the owner go as he was fixing to go under as well. Luckily a commercial fishing boat saw the smoke and he was the only survivor of this incident. He has never gone offshore since! I truly understand everyone’s concern and I love the comments but to all...Think of the lives that can be saved......David

I am in agreeance they are worthy pieces of equipment. I would never argue that, I just disagree with adding onto the mandatory list of equipment. Regulations end up being a slippery slope, what would of saved the person this time... The list will always grow and make it very costly to go boating/fishing. Most people dont spend that on a boat, allot of the boats we talking about are in the $5,000-$15,000 area. Understandably, these are not most of the boats on this forum. When you come down to those numbers it starts to change how easily it is to purchase a bit. Also the life expectancy of the device, allot of people dont treat their skiffs like most of the forum members do. Making it a reoccuring cost more frequently. Boats of the size you mentioned have requirements of life rafts etc. My thought is you are responsible to equip your boat for your trip and your conditions, making a trip accross the stream, it would be wise of you to get epirb and more. 

[DavidG]

Shallowmind, I 100% agree with you as well! Unfortunately there’s always the 10% who will not comply regardless of laws. Your 100% correct that the majority of this forum has more then what’s required on their boats. I do think though, if the Government gets involved they will make these devices more affordable for everyone. They will look at the cost of the device versus the cost of a SAR or a body recovery and can force these companies to make them affordable for all. No one including myself hate to be told what to do but when you look at it through ALL the eyes it makes sense. Dealers, when they sell you a new boat are required by law to give you a coast guard equipped bag. Of course that’s factored in, but that’s where it starts. 

[DavidG]

We all have a legacy where we want things to happen. After 31 years as a Lt/Paramedic/ FF, I want my legacy to be he tried to save every life he went to whether he knew them or not. If my ranting saves a single life or changes a outcome, then it’s all worth it....David

PS. It took a death for the creation of OSHA. Without deaths, we would not have them

[Shallowminded6]

9 minutes ago, DavidG said:

Shallowmind, I 100% agree with you as well! Unfortunately there’s always the 10% who will not comply regardless of laws. Your 100% correct that the majority of this forum has more then what’s required on their boats. I do think though, if the Government gets involved they will make these devices more affordable for everyone. They will look at the cost of the device versus the cost of a SAR or a body recovery and can force these companies to make them affordable for all. No one including myself hate to be told what to do but when you look at it through ALL the eyes it makes sense. Dealers, when they sell you a new boat are required by law to give you a coast guard equipped bag. Of course that’s factored in, but that’s where it starts. 

This is where I branch off some. When government gets involved and it is mandatory. Costs go up, you HAVE to buy. IE health care. Along with some other medical stuff. Insulin, epi etc. 

[DavidG]

Shallow, I honestly try to stay away from Government restrictions. I hate them as much as you do. If the money saved was to go back into the recreational fishing community,it’s definitely a plus!

[HoneyB]

I may be in the minority as well but I wouldn’t really be glad that was law. Honestly most of the examples posted here could happen anywhere. Heart attack and lighting strikes. Boat doing circles till it crashed, how does a eperb help that situation. If it was called in quickly would the responce time have been any quicker with a personal locator that the crabber may not have been able to activate anyway. 
 Honestly the vhf has been first line of safety communication for decades and people still risk going offshore without one. I heard but do not know for sure the 2 firefighters we lost did not have a working vhf onboard. Legislation will not keep people from making bad decisions. 

[DavidG]

HoneyB, I appreciate your reply! Yes the radio was working but weathermen had determined that they had hit a squall line about the same time as the last ping. His radio was in the electronic box in his TTop so what happened had to be catastrophic. He was a experienced offshore guy but as you know “ things happen” . Even after talking with Bruce yesterday, he was surprised that no debris was ever found other then a tackle bag. He said in his experience, that if a boat turns over, it usually floats for a bit due to air pockets. This was not the case in this incident. Nothing will bring them home but if I can make a change then God will bring others home to their families....David

 

[FINCHASER]

How longs it gonna be before theres a movement to outlaw cars and boats in the name of saving lives....?  How bout a law that makes parents keep there kids in bubble suits so the are protected from bumps and bruises.......... needless to say Im being sarcastic.

 

    

[DavidG]

1 minute ago, FINCHASER said:

How longs it gonna be before theres a movement to outlaw cars and boats in the name of saving lives....?  How bout a law that makes parents keep there kids in bubble suits so the are protected from bumps and bruises.......... needless to say Im being sarcastic.

 

    

Fin chaser, I kinda thought that lol

[HoneyB]

1 hour ago, DavidG said:

HoneyB, I appreciate your reply! Yes the radio was working but weathermen had determined that they had hit a squall line about the same time as the last ping. His radio was in the electronic box in his TTop so what happened had to be catastrophic. He was a experienced offshore guy but as you know “ things happen” . Even after talking with Bruce yesterday, he was surprised that no debris was ever found other then a tackle bag. He said in his experience, that if a boat turns over, it usually floats for a bit due to air pockets. This was not the case in this incident. Nothing will bring them home but if I can make a change then God will bring others home to their families....David

 

 Yes I did read the boat was equipped with vhf but also thought it was know. To be not functioning. I guess the coast guard investigation in much more accurate than the old inter web. 
 

[blewbyu]

Anybody that can afford a $100k and up boat and says they can't afford a PLB/EPIRP is penny wise and pound foolish. If it becomes mandatory the manufactures should lower prices and should be included in a new boat pkg. Cheaper prices would motivate all boaters.

[Bamaskeet]

My first impression is, I would rather the government promoted the use of EPIRBS, rather than mandate them.  I have one in my boat, along with a Inreach, I choose to be prepared for the worst.  I’m having a 8’ vhf antenna installed on my new boat so I can get more range to call for help.

We have way too many regulations.  Its my choosing to be prepared and I prefer to keep it that way.

[Capt. Troy]

It most certainly would save lives and tons of money! Probably enough money to purchase one for every boat.

It would be easier for the insurance companies to require it to provide coverage. I am surprised they aren't already doing it as they are getting picky about everything else.

 

Making it law would be a long drawn out process.

[Headhunter]

I like Capt. Troy’s idea. In Volusia county you get a discount on your boat tags if you have an epirb. A nice “safety equipment” discount would at least get this idea going. FYI, I carry a vhf hand held plus an epirb in my skiff. Where we fish there are few charts so I think the epirb is a god send

[DavidG]

Headhunter and Capt Troy, Both great ideas! Taking the life or lives out of the picture. After talking with Bruce and then crunching the figures. It’s not ALL Federal money, but State as well as already cut thin local budgets. The money saved could be used for new or repaired ramps. Artificial reef projects for our offshore members. Manufacturers could then cut the cost making them even more affordable. It’s a win/win for everyone! Thanks again for those great ideas!......David

[lookinforsnook]

Handheld VHF and PLB for me. I always give a quick 2 minute talk to all passengers before we depart on how to activate the PLB and it's location in case something were to happen and I am unable to do it myself. You are correct it is a "drop in the bucket" when you add it all up in the cost of boating but I become very concerned when the government mandates most things under the guise they are protecting us form ourselves. It should be an individuals decision to carry one or not. Just my 2 cents.

[DavidG]

14 minutes ago, lookinforsnook said:

Handheld VHF and PLB for me. I always give a quick 2 minute talk to all passengers before we depart on how to activate the PLB and it's location in case something were to happen and I am unable to do it myself. You are correct it is a "drop in the bucket" when you add it all up in the cost of boating but I become very concerned when the government mandates most things under the guise they are protecting us form ourselves. It should be an individuals decision to carry one or not. Just my 2 cents.

I appreciate all input from other boaters. But as quoted “ it should be a individual’s decision to carry one or not”  When we look at it that way should it be the Coast Guard, FWC, and local resources thinking “ should we go looking for that vessel or not” There are so many incidents both on land and water where actions put the rescuers in danger of losing their own lives due to that one comment. I commend you for carrying one as well as educating all parties on board. I wish everyone did.....David

[FINCHASER]

None of yall are really serious about safety unless you also have a satellite phone, we should be mandated to have one of those too I mean if we are talking life or death here come on.  Suprised no one has thought about putting airbags in boats as well?

[DavidG]

I for one am serious about safety. But guess this thread has become a joke for some. I wish ALL a happy and safe weekend . Just looking forward to doing some fishing this week as we’re getting some warmer weather and calm waters.....David

PS: I’m closing this thread due to comments like the one above. I apologize to all for trying to make a difference. Fin chaser , yourself as a ex LEO should be promoting Safety. If you get a PLB or EPRB  I can tell you where a great place to install it where you’ll be able to find it !Safe boating all!......David

[HoneyB]

Lots of folks are all about safety but if the state wanted to save lives I would think helmet laws would trump mandated PLB or Eprb. 

[DavidG]

HoneyB, up here in North Florida, if you fall on I-95 your not considered a motorcyclist but a human speed bump for a 1/2 dozen vehicles