Need all members help

[johnd]

I carry a PLB in my ditch bag - inshore, offshore (and EPRIBs on the offshore boats I fish)  Hope i never have to use.  State of Florida gives a discount annually on boat renewal when you have PLB/EPIRB.   That is a good government incentive.  Insurance companies could do likewise.  Incentive vs. mandatory.    It's not about the cost of these devices, heck we all have fishing reels that cost more than a device, to me it's simply about expanding role of government.  

[fin-addict]

DavidG,

I agree with all replies for the most part. On this forum we are some of the safest boaters on the water. I understand where your coming from but not to be rude or disrespectful in any way. Your orig post was good in some ways but after you received replies you started to back step and agree with the reasons for not having one, am I missing something.  Again saying this with all due respect sir. 😀👍⚓️🙏fin.

[Capt. Troy]

Bottom line a EPIRB/PLB is the only device that is designed to send for help in the most dire situations.

 

The remarks about cell phones, sat phones, VHF and air bags are laughable.

 

In a real emergency you could be talking seconds before you lose all electrical power, go for a swim and are floating. Most other devices are dead when they get wet and require skills to operate like speaking clearly, having use of both hands and actually knowing your position.

That is when you want a simple flip of the switch for the device that is designed to do only one thing.

Getting help coming to your position!

 

I don't care for big brother regulations anymore than the next guy but the truth of the matter is some folks need to be protected from themselves.

Maybe if the USCG started billing for SAR when they have to search thousands of square miles for a over due boat that doesn't have a EPIRB folks would wise up.

 

[DavidG]

Well spoken Capt Troy!  Fin-addict, No I don’t think of it as back stepping but more on respect of everyone’s opinion. I understand how long it can and will take to get a law passed which is years in most cases. A lot of members had great ideas though and might change the direction I’ll take to get it passed. One mentioned deduction of insurance cost ( a lot of people don’t have boat insurance) Annual Hull sticker is a option though to get your new hull sticker must show a registered card in the owners name that a PLB/EPRB is current. There are some great ideas that were thrown in. I can understand everyone’s reluctance to have the Government regulating it. Capt Troy put it correctly by his comment that some people need to be protected from themselves. I honestly have seen 2 older gentlemen in a deep Jon boat and a tiller motor 14 miles offshore???? In a true dire emergency Capt Troy again putting it mildly by saying you don’t have time! Again my good friend John P said there was no time to even grab a life jacket. I will quit my rambling about this but it hasn’t swayed me for pursuing this. If it saves 1 life or more and brings that man or family back to shore safely, then it’s well worth it......David

[FINCHASER]

Oooooh, oooooh, oooooh......Heres another idea.... maybe the .gov should regulate what weather we are allowed to go out boating in.... you know sea height, threat of storms etc.  This should go alot further to save lives cause an EPIRB doesnt guarantee youll be alive when they get there or even if theyll find you.  But if they prevent you going out in risky weather that should definitely save people from themselves.

How about mandatory pre launch boat inspections done by FWC or coast guard at every ramp to make sure theres no issues with the vessel before you go out?

 

Theres soooo many mandates and laws we could do to save more people

[FLDXT]

As I'm in favor of PLBs and EPIRBS I am not for mandating any of them. Are we gonna mandate Seatow memberships? Mandatory life rafts for all vessels over 16ft? Silly. You can't regulate stupid, no matter how hard you try. 

[Capt. Troy]

4 hours ago, FINCHASER said:

Oooooh, oooooh, oooooh......Heres another idea.... maybe the .gov should regulate what weather we are allowed to go out boating in.... you know sea height, threat of storms etc.  This should go alot further to save lives cause an EPIRB doesnt guarantee youll be alive when they get there or even if theyll find you.  But if they prevent you going out in risky weather that should definitely save people from themselves.

How about mandatory pre launch boat inspections done by FWC or coast guard at every ramp to make sure theres no issues with the vessel before you go out?

 

Theres soooo many mandates and laws we could do to save more people

There are no guarantees in anything and I get where your coming from.

I would also encourage you to look at how many of these tragedies could have been prevented with just a very few precautions and will stick with my statement that a lot of folks need to be protected from themselves.

 

Your chances of survival are greatly enhanced with a Epirb. Argue it all you want and I pray you never go for the long swim in rough seas knowing that it could be many hours before they even think about looking for you. Been there done that in 1976.

 

I can tell you what oooh ooh ooh is all about!

 

There are actually mandates per say when they issue small craft warnings for weather. That mandate will include when the operator proves to be negligent as the master off the vessel to operate in such conditions. Better yet, when the USCG or any agency decides not to respond due to conditions and you die or kill someone else who you gonna blame. You can bet your tail someone will hang over it in court.

 

I also get the fact that when resources are wasted because of bad decisions made by many,I don't want to be on the bad end of that deal.

I know seat belts are a bad idea as well and that law is stupid until it keeps your kid from flying through the wind shield.

[Capt. Troy]

In 2020, more for your reading pleasure.

Of the 421 U.S. rescues last year, 306 were water rescues, 38 were from aviation incidents and 77 were from events on land, where PLBs were used. Florida had the most SARSAT rescues with more than 100, followed by Alaska with more than 50. The previous rescue record of 353 (total) was set in 2007.

When a NOAA satellite pinpoints the location of a distress signal in the U.S., the information is relayed to the SARSAT Mission Control Center at NOAA’s Satellite Operations Facility in Suitland, Md. From there, the information is sent quickly to Rescue Coordination Centers, operated either by the U.S. Air Force for land rescues, or the U.S. Coast Guard for water rescues. NOAA also supports rescues globally by relaying distress signal information to international SARSAT partners.

“Each person rescued underscores the success of nearly 40 years of teamwork with the U.S. Coast Guard, the U.S. Air Force, NASA and our international partners,” said Steve Volz, assistant NOAA administrator for its Satellite and Information Service.

In one harrowing case last year, the impact of the crash of a small aircraft near Skwentna, Alaska, activated the emergency beacon onboard. The Alaska Rescue Coordination Center relayed the distress location to the Alaska Air National Guard responders, who pulled the two passengers from the wreckage and they received medical treatment at an area hospital.

 

In another rescue, six people were saved from a sinking boat 20 miles east of Sunny Isles, Fla. The U.S. Coast Guard received the emergency beacon alert and directed an emergency response boat to the scene.

Since its start in 1982, COSPAS-SARSAT has been credited with supporting more than 48,000 rescues worldwide, including nearly more than 9,000 in the United States and its surrounding waters.

 

[FINCHASER]

Bad decisions are made every day and getting worse every year... I would venture to say issues while boating are very low on the totem pole as compared to alot of other things in life.  You cant save everybody even from themselves theres enough people on this planet as it is imagine if we saved everybody.......  

[DavidG]

Fin chaser, In 30 years of public safety, God knows I’ve tried! My very last call that ruined my career as well as changing my life was saving the life of a young man that was on his way to work in a school board truck, when a anheiser beer truck went off a overpass and landed directly on top of his truck actually hiding it. The young man was impaled by his steering column, all lower extremity bones were shoved up under a crushed dash. He was in a fight/Flight mode and as he grabbed my helmet safety face shield:asking for ice cream and  turning my head past the point of no return my life changed! It took a LOT of fellow Firefighters 2 hours to get this man out! When he was flown out by a trauma helicopter, I honestly thought he would be a fatality! I ended up in the OR with MDs trying to put my neck back together as I lost use of my arms and hands. I ended up with titanium rods,plates and screws and donor bone shoved between my vertebrae ( unsuccessfully unfortunately). That was in 2014. I testified at his trial in 2016 as he was awarded 3.2 million dollars. We both hugged and cried as we both saw each other for the first time since the accident! I regained 50% of strength in both arms and hands during some extremely painful physical therapy! Since 2014, I’ve had 4 grandchildren who I’ve never been able to pick up and hold. Never had the ability to throw a baseball or football with them. I have a very supportive wife of 43 years who completely understands my limitations! One day of fishing for me means a day and a half of severe pain and unfortunately at times pain meds. I hold no grudges to the young man whose family still has a father to 2 young children and a wife who still has a husband! And I would do it again even knowing the outcome! A life is truly the most precious thing in life! So yes I would love to see the day we save everyone! Im sorry you don’t! I’m NOT looking for sympathy but I still will continue to look for ways to save other lives! I’m truly sorry that you feel the way you feel about a human life!....David

[FLDXT]

You can't regulate stupid....im sure our CG, FWC, marine le units have better things to do then conduct EPIRB/PLB checks on random boaters. 

[Shallowminded6]

I think allot of this turns into an issue larger than epirb/plb that may not have been as big an issue years past. Which is why it turns into a hot topic. As what Cap. Troy posted, noone has claimed they aren’t extremely useful, helpful, and money saving for rescue/life endangerment issues. I will say SAR and other numbers are highly skewed but expensive all the same. As far as saving people from themselves. That isn’t anyones job, or responsibility(especially gov.), even though we would like to be helpful. DavidG, I think there are allot of good views from this, and having the civil discourse there is here is what this country should be able to have. Listening to other sides and even if not changing your POV(not insinuating you are), but changing tactics is admirable and nothing wrong with it. Everyone has similar goals just different ideas of how to deal with it. 

[DavidG]

Shallowmind your correct. Sometimes the best ideas are just to keep my mouth shut. I’ve learned quite a bit about my own boat from this site. Not trying to change tactics or change anyone’s mind. It’s their own decision.....David

[FLDXT]

On 2/23/2021 at 5:36 PM, DavidG said:

I can tell you thats not even close to being accurate. But real nice making things personal when people disagree with you, class act!

[Big Dave]

4 hours ago, DavidG said:

Fin chaser, In 30 years of public safety, God knows I’ve tried! My very last call that ruined my career as well as changing my life was saving the life of a young man that was on his way to work in a school board truck, when a anheiser beer truck went off a overpass and landed directly on top of his truck actually hiding it. The young man was impaled by his steering column, all lower extremity bones were shoved up under a crushed dash. He was in a fight/Flight mode and as he grabbed my helmet safety face shield:asking for ice cream and  turning my head past the point of no return my life changed! It took a LOT of fellow Firefighters 2 hours to get this man out! When he was flown out by a trauma helicopter, I honestly thought he would be a fatality! I ended up in the OR with MDs trying to put my neck back together as I lost use of my arms and hands. I ended up with titanium rods,plates and screws and donor bone shoved between my vertebrae ( unsuccessfully unfortunately). That was in 2014. I testified at his trial in 2016 as he was awarded 3.2 million dollars. We both hugged and cried as we both saw each other for the first time since the accident! I regained 50% of strength in both arms and hands during some extremely painful physical therapy! Since 2014, I’ve had 4 grandchildren who I’ve never been able to pick up and hold. Never had the ability to throw a baseball or football with them. I have a very supportive wife of 43 years who completely understands my limitations! One day of fishing for me means a day and a half of severe pain and unfortunately at times pain meds. I hold no grudges to the young man whose family still has a father to 2 young children and a wife who still has a husband! And I would do it again even knowing the outcome! A life is truly the most precious thing in life! So yes I would love to see the day we save everyone! Im sorry you don’t! I’m NOT looking for sympathy but I still will continue to look for ways to save other lives! I’m truly sorry that you feel the way you feel about a human life!....David

Thank you for your years of service and God bless you.  I completely understand your perspective and respect it.  I'm not a big fan of government intervention--I don't favor helmet laws for motorcycles, though I wish people would use them; I don't think seat belts should be mandated, but I sure wear mine and wish everyone would.  If I had an offshore boat I would definitely use this life-saving technology.  

[FINCHASER]

On 2/23/2021 at 5:36 PM, DavidG said:

 

Which part the overpasses or the beer?  lmao sorry to disappoint but Im not a drinker, not that theres anything wrong with that unlike what you seem to be insinuating

[geeviam]

Good thread!  Learned a lot here!  Just want to thank everyone who contributed to the discussion, before MM deletes it!  I would definitely include these devices in my safety kit if I fished offshore or even in remote areas of the backcountry - voluntarily of course.

[jh141]

David, Government making more laws is a hot topic in the world today. We have a saying that when the government says  "let me help you"  it is never good.

Having a PLB or EPIRB is an excellent thing, ( Fin probably has one on his new 2500) BUT, being told you have to have one, maybe not so much. My son is a Licensed Captain and carries a ditch bag onto every boat he steps foot on that includes a PLB. His boats are commercial and all are required to have EPIRBs. I carry a PLB.

I and many others just do not want to be told I HAVE to have one.

How about a privately funded education program in the name of the two firefighters and maybe even the two very young men that were lost to the sea not that long ago. Maybe try to get funding from ACR or MBG. Now for that I would be onboard!!!!

On 2/23/2021 at 5:36 PM, DavidG said:

A very WISE friend of mine once taught me,....Never make it personal.....When you do the GOOD dialog ends and the bad dialog begins and nothing get done.

  God Bless and Tight Lines and Dry Bilges

[Moderator]

These discussions are excellent for newer boaters. Many people join this forum to learn. Let’s not teach them to bicker. 
We WILL have respectful discussions.

We will NOT let disagreements get personal and insulting. 
 

MM

[Shallowminded6]

2 hours ago, DavidG said:

Shallowmind your correct. Sometimes the best ideas are just to keep my mouth shut. I’ve learned quite a bit about my own boat from this site. Not trying to change tactics or change anyone’s mind. It’s their own decision.....David

That wasnt the idea behind my comment at all. I apologize if thats how it came across. Im saying it was good of you to be open to suggestions and opinions is all.  That is more than most would do, Im sorry if it came across differently. 

[DavidG]

Guys and Gals, I do apologize for my comment in reference to Finchaser! That honestly is usually not me and this thread definitely got out of hand until sarcastic remarks became heated. As far as back stepping, No I never did due to some great and better options that were posted by a lot of the members here. I do have a lot of respect for this forum and members as it is overflowing with a wealth of experience and knowledge. Like the majority of you, I as well do not like Government controlling ALL aspects of life and as I’ve just said, The members here gave me more options to go through which were actually better and easier then getting the Government involved. Again, I sincerely apologize to any member I offended. My only reason was to help enhance our safety on the water........David

[Capt. Troy]

No worries!

 

I am sure if we were all sitting around a table this conversation would be civil. It's a message board and typed words don't always convey the right message. That is why I hate texting.😉

Back to the topic.

When someone creates an issue that may effect me I look at it a little different.

Assets on the water are not unlimited. Epirbs have proven to cut down on blind searches and the success rate is high for rescue.

This alone frees up assets and saves countless operational dollars to fund the assets for our protection.

 

Not sure how it should be accomplished but it would be nice for someone to offer substantial incentives to promote those that fish or travel offshore to have a locator device. It is already a requirement for all commercial boats. I don't believe a commercial fishing vessel crews life is any more important than my friends or family.

Actually it's kind of silly that there is no requirement for VHF either. Maybe just a requirement to put on that horse collar life jacket and be put in the water for 8 hours in rough seas would solve the problem. My bet is anyone that ever had to do that would never go offshore again without all the safety gear they could buy.

 

I agree with the government regulation aspect as well and probably have a bigger gripe than most folks.

My offshore charter boat as of January this year can not go without me contacting NOAA before departure and before return to shore. I have to do this via a phone app. I also must record all fish caught, number of folks on board, price of the charter, and have my marina approved as a landing site so they can be waiting for me if they choose.

Next month they are adding a tracking device to 24/7 monitor my boats position at my expense plus 30 bucks a month in monitoring fees.

 

Hope the recreational sector isn't next!🇺🇸

[mdemott]

Fish in Nassau County FL backwaters only these days. Average depth is 4-6 feet and I stay comfortable with the oyster bars. Still have a EPIRB which I just re registered with NOAA. Don't carry a ditch bag as I don't go offshore ever. Fish with my son or wife and both know how to operate the boat and how to handle emergencies. My VHF has a distress signal and phone has a speed dial for Coast Guard and Boat US. Not sure a ditch bag with EPIRB would benefit me. 

[SouthernWake]

11 hours ago, Capt. Troy said:

 

I agree with the government regulation aspect as well and probably have a bigger gripe than most folks.

My offshore charter boat as of January this year can not go without me contacting NOAA before departure and before return to shore. I have to do this via a phone app. I also must record all fish caught, number of folks on board, price of the charter, and have my marina approved as a landing site so they can be waiting for me if they choose.

Next month they are adding a tracking device to 24/7 monitor my boats position at my expense plus 30 bucks a month in monitoring fees.

That's miserable, what's the reasoning for that?

[Capt. Troy]

7 minutes ago, SouthernWake said:

That's miserable, what's the reasoning for that?

Federal permits and Federal oversight in the name of being green/conservation!

 

I may have to invest in a 100 long mile extension cord next.😯