rubble Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Just completed another fun trip in the Glades and decided to go strictly on FMT marks. We have some local knowledge of some critical areas but were testing out the accuracy of the tracks. One area in particular that we’ve had to hop out and push/pull/lift ibetween Huston and Chevelier. We’ve hit it at low tide about every time through. We’ve found that there is a deep channel right against the mangrove and have had little trouble running there. The FMT chip shows that area is a bar. Thinking that maybe the conditions have changed there, I stayed right on the red line and still bumped in an area we’ve been high and dry a couple of times. It was full moon, bottom of the low/negative tide. We were running heavy with 4 days of gear. My co-angler has made that run many times and says he thinks that track is wrong. Not sure that it is wrong but there could be a better spot. We didn’t stop to check if there was still a cut against the mangroves. Anyone else run that against the mangrove and stray from the red line? Was a Great learning experience. We’ve been running from the Keys over but the winds were honking so we stayed in Choko and Ran to Roger’s via Chatham. Had no issues running dead on the red line. Hit a sandbar as soon as we got on plane leaving Choko via Rabbit at the first Post. Co-angler talked me into getting off of the red line to run where he thought the channel was. That’s when I made the decision to trust the Red line from that point on. Got to Roger’s and was too windy so we headed to Lonesome. We fished around the back of Broad and at the Mouth. Fished a little in Rogers. Was tough but we managed to put a few in the boat. Camp was lit up with the full moon. Bugs weren’t bad but the critters were active. We returned to Choko via the back. Came in around 10:30am at the extreme low. Super skinny. We bumped a few times north of Huston and particularly in Lopez. Made it on in on plane the entire trip. Definitely puckered up all the way until we got in front of Smallwood’s. We sat around Choko Island Park and saw the tide at the highest point. Was plenty of water around the bay. Boats running everywhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Helluva trip, Man ! What about the fish ? MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemaymiami Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 I'm learning to use my first chartplotter with the FMT chip - but have been running the upper bays out of Chokoloskee for years - and yes there's a spot or two that aren't as helpful as I'd hoped for - but by and large those tracks have been a great help. I've now done a few trips out of Goodland and nearby areas - places I've never been (for years I never worked farther west than Port of the Islands - I'm trying to expand my reach for the next time the folks up in Washington force the Park to close....) and wouldn't be able to do it without the chartplotter... Up inside there certainly are winter super low tides where you're likely to be running in much much less water than you'd like (understatement) it just goes with the territory. That spot as you leave Last Huston for Chevelier is pretty much as you describe - the only safe route, tight up against the south side of that pass is just barely safe with normal tides. On a super low (the combination of strong northerly winds and a full moon or new moon low..) will have you puckered up for sure... Just nothing like the 'glades... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 32 minutes ago, lemaymiami said: That spot as you leave Last Huston for Chevelier is pretty much as you describe - the only safe route, tight up against the south side of that pass is just barely safe with normal tides. On a super low (the combination of strong northerly winds and a full moon or new moon low..) will have you puckered up for sure... So the proper path is the south side of pass (Purple) or stick to Red Line? I made it through on red line but was dragging a little mud. Was definitely at the extreme low. Don't have jack plate. Just had engine trimmed up enough to have some grip. Feel like I've gone through on that South Side hugged up tight and kind of done the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 You have to be trading gelcoat with the mangroves cutting through Storter Bay Never been through with my new FMT but hundreds of time , with th other brand that shows you in the bush . Its navigable . 🇺🇸🏴☠️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 Have a few from our boat. Did not capture any of our catch for the trash can slam (Lizard Fish, Lady Fish, Jack, Catfish) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 Awesome adventure back into the Park !! Great discussion about the safe passages too !! MM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 2 hours ago, THE OUTLAW said: You have to be trading gelcoat with the mangroves cutting through Storter Bay Never been through with my new FMT but hundreds of time , with th other brand that shows you in the bush . Its navigable . 🇺🇸🏴☠️ I've run Shark to Flamingo, Harney, Broad to Choko, Choko to Harney (outside). The Garmin Charts seem to be pretty good as long as you are about 1 mile off the coast line. In the back you're dead on; Bush City. Anyone looking for a Garmin? With spots? FMT really is great everywhere I've been with it. Kind of tricky around Choko Bay when trying to go off of landmarks. There are a few Posts that are on opposite side of the Red line based on local knowledge. Same with some other posts in the area. My local co-angler would point out that the red line is on the wrong side. Again, wondering which side is correct but could really not matter. Red line basically means that a flats/bay boat in the 20' range has been on that line at low tide and has made it through. Been around a lot of the Glades without FMT but have a much higher comfort level using them. We didn't run Huston or get into Storter bay but saw the tracks when Entering and running up Chatham. Saw a lot of gold and Skulls on the Huston side. Chatham seemed like a fairly safe run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 I just sold my Garmin , to a forum member and was sooooooo close to leaving the spots on , bit I would of been divorced from my crew . 🇺🇸🏴☠️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrets Landing Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 The 101 to 100 marker is perhaps the most challenging run in the entire Wilderness Waterway. The ISLA chart shows that run as "may not be passable at low water conditions". On some negative tides with east wind the entire area can go high and dry. On a typical mean low the "101" is very tight there and there is no margin for error. The track there to the east is noted along the entire run with high caution four separate times. This is one of those spots where if your boat is even one inch over a foot of draft it can be trouble if trying to run FMT tracks. It looks likes one of those rigs in the photos likely is drafting over a foot with all the noted gear and people. Also, the images posted are navionics images and not FMT and the notes/lines drawn on the Navionics photos are not representative of the latest ISLA charts being sold. The SFL chart was re released last October with all new imagery and even since then about 9,000 bars and edges have been redrawn or added encompassing an area from the Nature Coast to the Keys and from St. Augustine to Miami. Many of those were in the 10,000 islands. As noted in the representative samples below, this particular spot shows the bars at that location redrawn from what it was on earlier versions and there is also a track exactly at the mangroves (just like you were talking about) with a lower level of caution on it inferring it is a deeper run than the track adjacent to it running between the two tight bars. If your chart doesn't have that track or still shows the bar encompassing the entire mangrove shoreline, it is dated and should be updated. ISLA ran the entire Wilderness Waterway looking for issues and moved markers and signs last summer and found lots of those kinds of changes. They moved a number of the numbered posts. There are some people out there are sending in chips for updates that have not been updated in more than two years and some more than four years. It is not clear exactly how old that FMT chart being used was but it's probably over a year old. Any ISLA chart covering that area that is more than a year old should be updated to avoid this kind of thing and provide the boater with the most useful insight in challenging areas like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanaflatsfish Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 nice update....I know those routes very well....it's super skinny in the winter and larger boats need to take extreme caution.... sending my chip for an upgrade this week....it's "been a minute" as Maverick says DC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 40 minutes ago, Egrets Landing said: Also, the images posted are navionics images and not FMT and the notes/lines drawn on the Navionics photos are not representative of the latest ISLA charts being sold. The SFL chart was re released last October with all new imagery and even since then about 9,000 bars and edges have been redrawn or added encompassing an area from the Nature Coast to the Keys and from St. Augustine to Miami. Many of those were in the 10,000 islands. As noted in the representative samples below, this particular spot shows the bars at that location redrawn from what it was on earlier versions and there is also a track exactly at the mangroves (just like you were talking about) with a lower level of caution on it inferring it is a deeper run than the track adjacent to it running between the two tight bars. If your chart doesn't have that track or still shows the bar encompassing the entire mangrove shoreline, it is dated and should be updated. ISLA ran the entire Wilderness Waterway looking for issues and moved markers and signs last summer and found lots of those kinds of changes. They moved a number of the numbered posts. There are some people out there are sending in chips for updates that have not been updated in more than two years and some more than four years. It is not clear exactly how old that FMT chart being used was but it's probably over a year old. Any ISLA chart covering that area that is more than a year old should be updated to avoid this kind of thing and provide the boater with the most useful insight in challenging areas like this. Is this chart the most current for Isla? I sent my chip in for the update a few weeks ago and received the updated chip back around 2/19/24. Don’t believe that was the imaging that showed up when we went through. I recall only one line which is the one more centered. Left my unit and chip in the Keys so I can’t verify my actual chart at the moment. What are the green arrows indicating on the bars? Is that suggesting to hug the tree line? That is what we typically do. What is the center line for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrets Landing Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 The 101 is not for the faint of heart and not a good choice in any rig other than a skiff unless the water is high. If the water was low and you were trying to run between the bars in that larger rig I am sure you would be bumping pretty bad even trimmed way up. You can get through either way in a qualified rig at mean low. I have done between the bars plenty of times without hitting. Along the mangroves is the easier of the two possible routes. Arrows were added to note it's best to stay to the east. There are some other places arrows are used in the SFL area where the arrows on posts were attached facing the wrong direction directing traffic to the wrong side. That happened in the Flamingo area and they left it that way even after we brought it to their attention. The images shown are from a software program used to create map data and may appear a bit different from what is on the chart as the images on the chart get more adjustments. Lots of updates were made to bars and some obstacles over the last couple of months and more were made in the Everglades over the last month. More will be made over the coming months as they are discovered. When you get back to your boat, go ahead and update your chart again before running the Keys to ensure you have the latest. If you don't want to be without you can buy another one when the next trip is near and note that on your order and when your old one is returned and received ISLA will refund the difference between the cost new and whatever may be owed for the update. Over the last few months, the charts sent out each week have been different from the charts sent out the previous week as a result of these ongoing edits. That said, most of the edits are very minor and many would not notice them. In this particular spot called the "101" any change there is more noteworthy given its rank as one of the tightest navigation runs anywhere in Florida. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 15 minutes ago, Egrets Landing said: The 101 is not for the faint of heart and not a good choice in any rig other than a skiff unless the water is high. If the water was low and you were trying to run between the bars in that larger rig I am sure you would be bumping pretty bad even trimmed way up. You can get through either way in a qualified rig at mean low. I have done between the bars plenty of times without hitting. Along the mangroves is the easier of the two possible routes. Arrows were added to note it's best to stay to the east. There are some other places arrows are used in the SFL area where the arrows on posts were attached facing the wrong direction directing traffic to the wrong side. That happened in the Flamingo area and they left it that way even after we brought it to their attention. The images shown are from a software program used to create map data and may appear a bit different from what is on the chart as the images on the chart get more adjustments. Lots of updates were made to bars and some obstacles over the last couple of months and more were made in the Everglades over the last month. More will be made over the coming months as they are discovered. When you get back to your boat, go ahead and update your chart again before running the Keys to ensure you have the latest. If you don't want to be without you can buy another one when the next trip is near and note that on your order and when your old one is returned and received ISLA will refund the difference between the cost new and whatever may be owed for the update. Over the last few months, the charts sent out each week have been different from the charts sent out the previous week as a result of these ongoing edits. That said, most of the edits are very minor and many would not notice them. In this particular spot called the "101" any change there is more noteworthy given its rank as one of the tightest navigation runs anywhere in Florida. For clarification, if we have an updated chip (say as of February 2024) and we want to get it updated again in May of 2024 so that it’s current, that’s included with the Feb 2024 purchase/update or up to one year from the February 2024 purchase/update? I’ve done as you suggested before and purchased a new chart and returned the old once back in FL to retrieve from unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrets Landing Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 If you bought a new chart about a month ago and want to update it in a few months in May, the update cost is only for shipping. If you buy another in May to avoid being without and note that on the May order the entire purchase less the shipping would be refunded to you upon receipt of the older chip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 28 Author Report Share Posted February 28 8 minutes ago, Egrets Landing said: If you bought a new chart about a month ago and want to update it in a few months in May, the update cost is only for shipping. If you buy another in May to avoid being without and note that on the May order the entire purchase less the shipping would be refunded to you upon receipt of the older chip. This is applicable to a “new chart” only or to a newly updated chart as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coto Posted February 28 Report Share Posted February 28 I had mine swapped after the most recent update and it does not have that redline against the mangrove at 101. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 You MUST scrape the mangroves at 101 . Better to hit mangrove than rock bottom. Also , I know for a fact there are no fish there and you should just trim it high and let it fly , right on by . 🇺🇸🏴☠️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 I just bought my chip from you , right after Christmas. I do not own a computer. (FL Cracker), So how does one go about doing an update? 🇺🇸🏴☠️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 29 Author Report Share Posted February 29 1 hour ago, Coto said: I had mine swapped after the most recent update and it does not have that redline against the mangrove at 101. Good. Well not good but I was beginning to think I overlooked the line at the mangrove. We actually stopped in Chevelier to look at a map with notes to verify we were about to hit that spot. We Knew we needed to be against the mangrove but I decided to stay on the center line between the bars thinking something had changed. Now I’m thinking my update did not include that mangrove line but I just purchased the update on Feb 8, 2024 and received the updated card around Feb 14th. Surprised that update would not have been on that card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 29 Author Report Share Posted February 29 4 minutes ago, THE OUTLAW said: I just bought my chip from you , right after Christmas. I do not own a computer. (FL Cracker), So how does one go about doing an update? 🇺🇸🏴☠️ Ralph, It’s actually very simple. You can use phone/tablet and order from website. Here is a link https://floridamarinetracks.com/marine-track-maps/update-my-charts/ Since your charts are less than a year old, you can get a free update. Just pay shipping if I recall correctly. That is why I was asking if you purchase an updated card if you got free updates for a year as well. Anyway, you make the purchase online and send in your card. As soon as they receive they ship out an updated card. As Glenn mentions, you can also have a card shipped out before they receive yours but you’ll have to make a full purchase and they will credit back. Fairly simple process just a little confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubble Posted February 29 Author Report Share Posted February 29 Here are more detailed instructions… Send your chip(s) to: ISLA / Elaine Depasquale 702 Bohannon Circle Oswego, IL 60543-6002 630-247-3199 Get a tracking number so you will know where your package is and can advise. Make sure your package includes something inside so it is clearly Identified and we know to whom it belongs. We receive packages each week that are not identified and we have no idea who sent it. Do Not Require a Signature for Delivery. If we are not available to sign, it can cause a substantive delay as the service will often not redeliver. We only send out replacements upon physical receipt of your current chip(s). If you owe funds for your update (charts owned more than 365 days), order the update in the ISLA Store and then send your current chip(s) to us. We work to return updates the day we receive your current chip. Delivery within Florida is typically one to two days depending on the location. If you do not know if you owe an update fee because you are unsure of your original purchase date, please email us at Info@ISLAmapping.com to inquire. We treat all of our customer accounts with the same deference on update timing. If you have owned your chart more than one year, an update fee is charged and there are no exceptions; one day over 365 days is treated the same as 2 months late or a year out of date. If you have owned your charts 365 days or fewer (based on your original date of purchase) you do not owe funds other than shipping for your update. Choose the free update on the order sheet. This option will not charge for the update itself but it does charge the return shipping for your update. Thus, the Free Update option is free except for the shipping. The Update order covers the standard delivery return shipping costs. Send your current chip(s) to us as noted above and make sure they are properly identified so we know to whom they belong. We receive packages each week that are not identified and we have no idea who sent them. You do not need to send us mailing labels unless you would like to provide for your own for overnight return and do not want to order an overnight return option through ISLA. We send the packages out M-F (holidays excepted). Note, overnight orders made on a Friday often will not be delivered on Saturday depending on the location. If you are ordering a FREE update and you purchased your charts from a retail dealer we will not have a record of the date of the sale to validate the order. Thus, please include the purchase receipt to validate the purchase date and include that with your return package. Or you can text a photo of it to 407 4637216 and identify the update order so it can be matched and credit applied. If you purchased directly from ISLA on line, this is not necessary as we already have a record of the sale to validate the order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Chevelier Bay is the most dangerous bay , in the backcountry. I have run that bay three times , in a neg situation, and FMT , was on point . 🇺🇸🏴☠️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE OUTLAW Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 Dang ! You just typed all that ? Would of taken me an hour ! 🫤 🇺🇸🏴☠️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egrets Landing Posted February 29 Report Share Posted February 29 3 hours ago, Coto said: I had mine swapped after the most recent update and it does not have that redline against the mangrove at 101. The Most Recent update is Every Week. As noted, updates go on weekly. A chart received one week is likely to be different in some respects from charts sent out the following week. There are tens of thousands of features on the chart. In most cases, you would never notice a difference where you run. In this case, because of the particulars of this unique very tight spot, some will notice and particularly if you are running an older version in a boat that drafts more than a foot. Clearly most of the charts out there today will not have the latest info for the 101 marker and most of the users will never even see the 101 marker let alone the Wilderness Waterway. Today, there were changes to PVC stakes in the lower St. Johns marsh and some post lines added in a couple of places in the St. Johns River. There were also bushes added that are obstacles in deep water in Lake Monroe along with Buoy changes near I-4. Last week bars were added between Flagler Beach and New Symrna and some signs added in the Indian River south of Sebastian. Most of the charts out there today will not have any of those edits on either. Every week stuff is edited all over the State including deletions and additions. If you got your chart updated on 12/31/23, there are more than 10,000 total changes including all of the above and lots of others. ISLA is not general reference mapping like the others and FMT users should not assume that data changes with respect to anything really and particularly timing would be similar to their previous general reference chart. The other charts never map these kinds of fine details and what is mapped only changes when NOAA says on an annual basis or longer. And even if NOAA is wrong, it still goes their chart wrong because there is no independent vetting of the govt data; its merely a regurgitation of what some govt. worker says. The video posted of the 2024 SFL update shows examples of these kinds of detail inaccuracies due to lack of vetting by the mfg of the general ref. charts. They are prevalent all over the State and in some places it is highly dangerous. For instance, on Navionics Plat+ the entire Western Jetty at the NW passage at KW is not visible in their provided imagery, the #1 and #2 markers at the entrance to Bud N Marys is wrong directing boats away from the channel and into a shallow flat and the entrances on both ends of Lake Ingraham are so poorly charted its not possible to use for any safe navigation let alone the entrances to Lostmans or Chatham which are a total mystery. ISLA will be back in the Keys for more than 2 months starting in April. More updates will be coming from 10,000 islands to Marquesas this summer. Most will be minor but they will be noted as changes nevertheless. For example, we expect more mangrove IAN obstacles in the backcountry of the lower keys on the flats will be removed and if some of the wrecks we found last visit up on the flats have been removed we will take those off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.