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Cranking Battery - Yep another battery question


East Coast Dave

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Before I start I'm sorry for another battery post.  I tried to search for the past ones but didn't have a lot of luck.

I may have a battery that is on its way out.  I took it to the local Advance Discount Auto thinking even though the battery was just showing 12 volts that they could say if it was good to hold a charge or had something wrong with it were it may not be able to hold a charge.   He just say it was showing 1/2 the cranking amps and it would need to be charged before he could tell me anything. I have it on a battery tender junior getting a charge to see if I can get a full charge on it overnight.

I was thinking if I needed to buy a new battery, for a 90 hp 2 stroke Yamaha, I would go with what  I alway go with, the dual purpose blue top from Optima.  Then I was thinking I only needed 500 cranking amps and the previous owner had an auto craft battery that is from 4/14.  Not sure if I'm wasting the money just going with to old standby blue top...  I don't want to penny wise and pound foolish...

below is the old battery and what the owner's manual says I need.  Thanks for any suggestions.

 

IMG_0428.JPG

IMG_0427.JPG

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I've got a 150vmax 2 stroke that came with the auto craft battery. Starts it up every time and runs everything on the boat with ease (powerpole / gps-fishfindsr). When it does, I'll probably get same one. I'm very happy with it. It's not that it's the minimum needed but if it ain't broke don't fix it

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57 minutes ago, East Coast Dave said:

I was actually looking at a Duracell online. I wanted to stick with the 24 series since it's tight under the console to begin with.

Happy New Year. 

 

I almost think it was a 34 but it dropped in a 24 battery tray. I think they are almost the same size if not the same. AGMs in general are a little smaller than lead batteries.

Happy new year to you and your family.

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Hi everyone, happy New Year,.

I bought a "new to me" 2200/f250 at Thanksgiving. The boat is at our local PF/Yam dealer getting a baseline inspection / a lot of small upgrades done for me to make it like new and reliable. I wanted to get rid of the lead acid batteries in the CC due to my perceived corrosion problems with that type and the batts are 2 1/2 years old. When I asked to swap the out with AGMs, I was told to bring them in and they would install. They only stock lead acids, and don't recommend AGMs.

Anyone know why? The service manager really didn't have a good answer, except that "it's not recommended".

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I switched to AGMs in 2008 and never looked back. The 2008 Pathfinder I sold in 2013 still had the original Optimas in it. I do remember we had issues with the charger type at that time.  AGMs take a different charging profile and the older chargers didn't have it. You need to make sure the charger has an AGM or glass matte setting. To get  maximum length of service they should be on some type of trickle charger all the time when not in use. There is also a potential issue recharging from a very low charge state in the battery if you don't have the right charger.

I am not an expert but I am a retired JCI employee and JCI makes Optima. I got some great info and basic education from some of my co-workers there. They also have good guidance on their website. I have used AGMs on everything from 40 to 250hp on my boats since 2008. I have no idea why your service manager told you what he told you but I think you will get different feed back from the owners in this group.

Good luck with your new boat.

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9 hours ago, Headhunter said:

I switched to AGMs in 2008 and never looked back. The 2008 Pathfinder I sold in 2013 still had the original Optimas in it. I do remember we had issues with the charger type at that time.  AGMs take a different charging profile and the older chargers didn't have it. You need to make sure the charger has an AGM or glass matte setting. To get  maximum length of service they should be on some type of trickle charger all the time when not in use. There is also a potential issue recharging from a very low charge state in the battery if you don't have the right charger.

I am not an expert but I am a retired JCI employee and JCI makes Optima. I got some great info and basic education from some of my co-workers there. They also have good guidance on their website. I have used AGMs on everything from 40 to 250hp on my boats since 2008. I have no idea why your service manager told you what he told you but I think you will get different feed back from the owners in this group.

Good luck with your new boat.

Thanks.......I am having a lift and dock put in when the permitting is complete (another story someday). At that time, I'll have power next to the boat, and can keep on charge after each use. I'm good to go on the onboard charger. That's when I'll replace all the batteries.

I've been an anonymous reader for some time now and everyone has written great and honest advice to help get me back into the fishing and boating world. I think I've read every post, I looked at many PFs, and was amazed that most sellers didn't know much about their boats. Several were unaware about this forum. I found a freshwater, meticulously kept, 2008 TE, and couldn't be happier. Many thanks to all.

Mike

 

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22 minutes ago, Kilcoin said:

Thanks.......I am having a lift and dock put in when the permitting is complete (another story someday). At that time, I'll have power next to the boat, and can keep on charge after each use. I'm good to go on the onboard charger. That's when I'll replace all the batteries.

I've been an anonymous reader for some time now and everyone has written great and honest advice to help get me back into the fishing and boating world. I think I've read every post, I looked at many PFs, and was amazed that most sellers didn't know much about their boats. Several were unaware about this forum. I found a freshwater, meticulously kept, 2008 TE, and couldn't be happier. Many thanks to all.

Mike

 

If you have bought a boat,you must know that the forum members have to see pictures!   Please!  Welcome!

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here is an interesting chart from DEKA where they discuss various options for batteries.....note the 60-200 on Yamaha section all indicate the 125 RC are met and they are all wet cell.   As mentioned, I have a skinny mini 50ph sammie dog on my skiff....i asked the guys at the boat center (Yamadog dealer)....about installing an AGM...the service manager said - don't do it...why? I asked...he said, they will work, but, given the design of the engine (remember, my engine is a 1998 - way before AGM's), they have had "funky" electrical problems with the engines using AGM's which have been hard to diagnosis...the small engines have a "stater" and not a large alternator.   That being said, I did run the Marine Max DEKA white battery 1000CCA on the F150 (2005) model for many years without a problem...my simple, non-sophisticated gear head understanding....the standard batteries accept the high output of the newer larger alternators when underway and when charged....When I went to a 36V TM..I went with 4 series 31's acrross the  console and never had a problem....ran the livewells all day and had a 1-2 all switch in the event of a need to crank.....

I think the real key is:

 

1.) Always charge within a day or so that you return

2.) Install a stealth system if you find your self doing multiple trips without charging

3.) I only like to use AGM's for troller (DEKA's) seem to work well - heavy, but, they work

4.)For small motors and 2 strokes, use the the wet cell, and just check the water on a regular basis - I use a combination battery for my house - dual purpose series 34 as I run two power poles....so far, never a problem at 30+ trips...in the last year.

 

http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0406MarineApplicationslayout.pdf

 

 

https://www.dcbattery.com/faq.html

 

here is another site with some good battery info..

 

dc

 

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Pretty sure the issue with AGM's on some motors is due to the lower internal resistance. AGM's have a lower internal resistance compared to wet cells, because of this they can output more power.

I have never had any issues with AGM's and the motor,  have run them with my last 3 motors. 90, 200, and 150 Yamahas.

Would love a Lithium battery, but man are they pricey. Maybe one day!

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3 hours ago, VsteveV said:

How long did the blue top last ?

It was on the boat when I bought. If I figured out the date code correctly, it was 6 years old. Which is fantastic. But for the price difference I thought I would give the Duracell AGM a shot, $150 vs $315 for a group 31. 

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All,

Attached is a PDF on the battery recommendations and installation guidelines from Yamaha. In summary, AGMs are allowed for most 4-stroke models. The document is dated 2014, but was updated last year, as indicated by the arrows. I can't guarantee it the latest and greatest, but it seems to be close.

CAUTION: This is an engineering advice document and it is intended for Yamaha dealers and their service professionals. It is NOT intended for customers use. If you use to make decisions on your boat, make sure you understand all the notes and caveats included. If you don't understand what you are seeing, please print, and ask a Yamaha professional to explain it to you.

For right now, I'm replacing the cranking battery with a higher capacity lead acid due to age. The two TM batteries are also lead acid, but slightly newer, and test good, so I'll keep for now. After I learn more about my "new to me" boat, I plan to switch all to AGM, possible this summer.

Thanks again for every ones help.

 

Yamaha Battery bulletin.pdf

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