Rusting shift cables

[knotthereelworld]

Perhaps a dumb question but I'm still learning a lot about my RF 18 and maintenance. I've got some rusting cables going back to the engine. I believe they are the cables for shifting in and out of gear. Are these at the point of needing replacement or is it something I can wrap in rubber tape and then duct tape and work with for awhile? Throttle shifts just fine. They had some rust on them when I purchased the boat in January. I've already used it 74 more hours of run time, half of that in salt, so the issue has gotten worse. Any thoughts and suggestions appreciated. Thanks!

[SCFD rtrd.]

Wow, you need new cables right now. It's a wonder they are still working. If the throttle cable fails at full throttle, then what? If the shifter cable fails while trying to dock or load your boat on the trailer, then what?

If you are not versed in changing the cables, take it to the shop soon.

My friend had several people on a pontoon boat and tried to dock at a restaurant on the water. The shift cable failed when he was trying to enter the slip. He tried to  slow the boat by putting the shifter in reverse, but the motor was stuck in forward. He pulled back on the shifter thinking he was not in reverse, which gave the motor more throttle. In result, several thousand $ in damage to the boat and dock.

[HoneyB]

yes you should replace them now not later. 

Wrapping them up will likely cause the rust  get worse at a faster rate than leaving them open so you can hose them off. 

That is the outer shell so of corse your cables work fine but when they come apart you will loose the ability to use that cable. 

This is a safety issue for you, those who boat with you or near you. Replace the cables it’s not that expensive. 

[smilemaker]

SCFD is absolutely right 

Replace before you  go  out  on the water. 

Do not take offense but just asking makes me question your knowledge. Have an experienced mechanic get you back into shape.

[knotthereelworld]

2 hours ago, SCFD rtrd. said:

Wow, you need new cables right now. It's a wonder they are still working. If the throttle cable fails at full throttle, then what? If the shifter cable fails while trying to dock or load your boat on the trailer, then what?

If you are not versed in changing the cables, take it to the shop soon.

My friend had several people on a pontoon boat and tried to dock at a restaurant on the water. The shift cable failed when he was trying to enter the slip. He tried to  slow the boat by putting the shifter in reverse, but the motor was stuck in forward. He pulled back on the shifter thinking he was not in reverse, which gave the motor more throttle. In result, several thousand $ in damage to the boat and dock.

Thanks, my thought was to change them out, but it was suggested to me by a mechanic that they will easily last until the winter since it is the outer coating that is failing. I obviously don't want to be caught out on the water with an experience like your friend had. Ordering new ones now. Thanks!

[knotthereelworld]

1 hour ago, HoneyB said:

yes you should replace them now not later. 

Wrapping them up will likely cause the rust  get worse at a faster rate than leaving them open so you can hose them off. 

That is the outer shell so of corse your cables work fine but when they come apart you will loose the ability to use that cable. 

This is a safety issue for you, those who boat with you or near you. Replace the cables it’s not that expensive. 

Thanks, will replace ASAP!

[knotthereelworld]

2 hours ago, smilemaker said:

SCFD is absolutely right 

Replace before you  go  out  on the water. 

Do not take offense but just asking makes me question your knowledge. Have an experienced mechanic get you back into shape.

Fine by me, question away. Isn't the point of the message board to learn about something one doesn't know, or wants to verify with others who may have more experience? 

[MuddyBottomBluz]

I will tell you this; it is very unusual for the cables to corrode and rust in the exact same spots. My guess they go back into the rigging tube when turning the engine and are rubbing on something to cause a break in the outer insulation and then get what you have here. Find the cause and correct it before installing the new ones.

[knotthereelworld]

19 minutes ago, MuddyBottomBluz said:

I will tell you this; it is very unusual for the cables to corrode and rust in the exact same spots. My guess they go back into the rigging tube when turning the engine and are rubbing on something to cause a break in the outer insulation and then get what you have here. Find the cause and correct it before installing the new ones.

Thank you, great point. I just checked and they don't slide into it. Maybe they are too long and the bend is what is causing it? I'm guessing these are original but do not know. Perhaps the bend over 15-16 years has eventually caused cracking in the insulation and then corrosion... I called Hewes and Lisa (great customer service by her on my many questions) told me they should be 16 foot cables, which I'm picking up from a dealer tomorrow. 

[MuddyBottomBluz]

Another good point, sun rotted at the bend and finally the exterior insulation gave up. Anyways you made the right call to get the answer you need. Just an FYI, I put split sleeve on the cables and my harness to protect from UV rays and fish hooks, once that outer insulation gets a hole or a crack in it, moisture WILL find a way in.

[fishmanjj]

1 hour ago, knotthereelworld said:

Fine by me, question away. Isn't the point of the message board to learn about something one doesn't know, or wants to verify with others who may have more experience? 

There are no bad or stupid questions on here. This is the best forum going and there are hundreds of years of experience with almost any topic you can imagine. Get those cables replaced and enjoy the boat..go fishing. 

[knotthereelworld]

1 hour ago, fishmanjj said:

There are no bad or stupid questions on here. This is the best forum going and there are hundreds of years of experience with almost any topic you can imagine. Get those cables replaced and enjoy the boat..go fishing. 

Thank you. This is by far the best board I have found for anything boating. Luckily I own a Hewes. Have already learned a ton from browsing all sorts of topics. 

[knotthereelworld]

1 hour ago, MuddyBottomBluz said:

Another good point, sun rotted at the bend and finally the exterior insulation gave up. Anyways you made the right call to get the answer you need. Just an FYI, I put split sleeve on the cables and my harness to protect from UV rays and fish hooks, once that outer insulation gets a hole or a crack in it, moisture WILL find a way in.

Split sleeve is a great idea, I was thinking of wrapping electrical tape over it but that is likely easier. Thanks for the tips!

[MuddyBottomBluz]

Just another FYI, if you are one of those individuals who wrap everything in electrical tape, mechanics will add labor for dealing with the sticky mess and having to unravel it all to gain access to harness'es and plugs and connections, etc. It looks clean as long as you don't have to work on it.

[knotthereelworld]

So I've installed the cables into the binnacle, through the boat and at the engine but now have a new issue. When not hooked to the F115 engine, the cables slide fine, in and out when I shift and adjust the throttle handle. However, when hooked to the shifter and throttle on the 115, the do not want to slide, SOMETIMES. I have adjusted it every which way on the ends of the cables. Yesterday evening I walked away from it angry and pissed off. The cable would shift into reverse nice and easy but not into forward so I disconnect it, walk away to come back today with a clear head. Come back out this morning and hook the cables back up as yesterday and poof it works, however it is "tight" when shifting. I shift back and forth from reverse all the way throttled down, up into forward and all the way up for a minute. It loosens up and acts normal and I think it is fixed. Go back to it ten minutes later and try again and the cables are tight again and barely will shift into reverse or forward. WTH?!?!?!?!?!? 

Where am I going wrong here?

[HoneyB]

That is a tuff one. If the cable is tight and u take it off the motor end without removing the clamp does it free up? 

Are the cables the same length as the old ones?  Is there a loop? Honestly if they feel smooth clamped to the motor but not attached they should not tighten up much when attached 

when you see the friction has the wheel been turned?

i would go back to the binical and make sure something did not slip while you were putting the side back on 

[knotthereelworld]

13 hours ago, HoneyB said:

That is a tuff one. If the cable is tight and u take it off the motor end without removing the clamp does it free up? 

Are the cables the same length as the old ones?  Is there a loop? Honestly if they feel smooth clamped to the motor but not attached they should not tighten up much when attached 

when you see the friction has the wheel been turned?

i would go back to the binical and make sure something did not slip while you were putting the side back on 

Thanks for your suggestions. Cables are same lengths and are the recommendations directly from Hewes. The wheel turned wasn't the issue. Cables are smooth as can be when shifting and increasing throttle when not attached to motor, thus it seems like a shifting issue. Triple checked the binnacle and all looks good there. 

Fooled with it for another few hours today. Finally got my mechanic friend to swing by. We adjusted the cables every which way before determining that the engine needs to be running with the boat in neutral for it to properly shift. We tested it with the muffs on and it did indeed work each time. Why it won't properly shift at all times without the engine running gives me some serious pause...  He says its because the gears aren't completely meshing up unless they are rotating in neutral (I'm probably saying this incorrectly) but that doesn't make sense to me because it wasn't doing that previously. It would shift just fine with the engine not running and the old cables. Perhaps the new ones with different tension make it more difficult to shift until they get worn in? Splashing it first thing tomorrow morning for a test run.....

[MuddyBottomBluz]

  Here's the deal, you have shift "dogs" in your lower unit, when you take you engine out of gear they are typically lined up so they can be re-engaged, sometimes, when engine is off. That is why it is so important to make sure the cable is adjusted properly because that cable replacement can turn into a $1,500 dollar rebuild of a lower unit if the dogs are not engaging fully & properly. Best thing to do is measure the adjustment nut on the old cable and apply the same length to the new cable and it will get you very close to the proper alignment.

[smilemaker]

Sometimes  it's  helpful to understand the  workings of things. The drive  shaft and engine obviously turn in the same direction  all the time and the gear at the end is horizontal.  The prop shaft is 90 degrees to it and has a sleeve that can slide forwards and  backward.  This sleeve has gears on it. If you go forward you rotate one way. If you slide the other way the other  gear causes the prop shaft to  rotate the other way.  Think of a hurricane. The winds blow north on one side but south  on the other. 

If the gear shift that moves the assembly  called the clutch  dog is not aligned properly  shifting can be difficult.  For what it is worth if you have not removed the lower unit none of it has changed. Careless water pump installation usually cause misalignment of the shift mechanism. 

With the engine off these gears may not align but a slight turn of the prop should let them slide right in. This may be where your adjustment difficulties are and why it behaves while running.

[hawg]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the motor be running before you attempt to shift into forward or reverse?

[MuddyBottomBluz]

7 minutes ago, hawg said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the motor be running before you attempt to shift into forward or reverse?

You are correct and obviously I agree.

[smilemaker]

We are talking about shifting while adjusting the linkage on the trailer. Or at least I thought that is what he is doing. 

[HoneyB]

I’m not exactly sure I’m buying the whole must be running thing. I have never had issues shifting any boat into forward or reverse when not running.

 I’m glad your motor is shifting. Hope it continues to do so for a long time . But if you ever have the boat in a shop I would ask a mechanic about the shifting thing 

[knotthereelworld]

12 hours ago, smilemaker said:

Sometimes  it's  helpful to understand the  workings of things. The drive  shaft and engine obviously turn in the same direction  all the time and the gear at the end is horizontal.  The prop shaft is 90 degrees to it and has a sleeve that can slide forwards and  backward.  This sleeve has gears on it. If you go forward you rotate one way. If you slide the other way the other  gear causes the prop shaft to  rotate the other way.  Think of a hurricane. The winds blow north on one side but south  on the other. 

If the gear shift that moves the assembly  called the clutch  dog is not aligned properly  shifting can be difficult.  For what it is worth if you have not removed the lower unit none of it has changed. Careless water pump installation usually cause misalignment of the shift mechanism. 

With the engine off these gears may not align but a slight turn of the prop should let them slide right in. This may be where your adjustment difficulties are and why it behaves while running.

Yes, a slight turn of the prop is what made us realize that it was indeed properly aligned at first. As soon as we moved it, it began shifting properly.

I ran the boat hard today for 40 miles. It shifted just fine and accelerated properly when the engine was running. Whew. Seems all is well at this point. It still won't shift forward or reverse when not running. Not a big deal, but it did it previously. My previous Carolina Skiff shifted in forward and reverse when not running. My father's Key West with an F150 Yamaha shifts forward and reverse while not running, we tried it today. Just odd that it would previously do it, but now with the new cables won't. I wasn't constantly shifting it in and out of gear when not running, but I remember doing it a few times while screwing around on the boat. 

I've never heard of it being bad to shift while the engine is not running but I could be totally wrong. I'll ask the tech at my home shop next time I'm in there. My mechanic friend made no mention of it and certainly tried to shift while it was not running. 

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts and insights on this, I've learned a ton. Thank you! Now if only the redfish would show as they are supposed to....